Can a DAC this cheap really be this good? Yes it can! (…but with a little effort.)
oranda
Active Member
What about the Sony DVP-NC80V suggested here. Very nice sounding transport for not a lot of money (I'm listening to one right now.) There are other suggestion there as well. Good luck!
I've been watching FB Marketplace and, besides the Yamaha, nothing has seemed like it would be worth the trouble to track down.
The Shanling is $299 brand new. It can be used as a CD ripper as well, but that has no value to me. I just didn't want to deal with lasers dying or loading mechanism problems. The retailer extends a 60- day trial so very little risk.
There was a big difference in the sound the cheap Toshiba DVD player yielded compared to the Yamaha (between skips). The Yamaha was much more focused and composed with less "zing".
So, the transport makes a difference IMO. I just wasn't ready to make the jump to multi-thousand $ transports. I'll update how the Shanling works out, either on this thread or a new one.
The Shanling is $299 brand new. It can be used as a CD ripper as well, but that has no value to me. I just didn't want to deal with lasers dying or loading mechanism problems. The retailer extends a 60- day trial so very little risk.
There was a big difference in the sound the cheap Toshiba DVD player yielded compared to the Yamaha (between skips). The Yamaha was much more focused and composed with less "zing".
So, the transport makes a difference IMO. I just wasn't ready to make the jump to multi-thousand $ transports. I'll update how the Shanling works out, either on this thread or a new one.
oranda
Active Member
I agree that the transport does make a difference. Looking forward to your opinions on the Shanling.
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desertrat748
Super Member
I wanted something with digital coaxial and optical output so I just picked up a Sony DVP-NC80V off the Bay for 40 clams plus shipping. That’s dirt cheap and I know your recommendations are always solid. Can’t wait to compare optical vs coaxial.
knotscott
Super Member
LOL...the logic on my Denon has been acting up, so I ordered the Sony DVP-NC80V also from feebay a few days ago for about the same price. Should be here in a few days...looking forward to seeing what it can do.
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Well, the Shanling CR60 did not work for me. Besides being extremely thin sounding it was already skipping on some tracks and the "close" button did not work. Some people claim Shanling players require 200 hours of burn in. While I don't dismiss this idea out of hand listening to this player for 200 hours was going to be painful.
oranda
Active Member
Excellent!! I think that should be a winner sound-wise and it's a great looking CD player to boot.
I completed the Muses 02 swap. It was tricky. I used Chip Quik to remove the SMD, which worked great. Soldering in the BrownDog adapter was tedious. Judicious use of flux facilitated the process. I bridged the pins a couple of times but eventually got it sorted.
The improvement over stock is about 20-25% in my estimation. Stock it sounded better than the DAC in the Marantz CD player, which is surprising. I'm very happy with the results of the project. Thanks, Señor Oranda.
All this messing about with digital devices yielded some interesting results. Those folks who say "bits is bits" either don't have a revealing system or good ears. Or, they are deniers who have an axe to grind. All 3 transports I tried sounded different. The Shanling was thin, the Yamaha (between skips) was rather dark. The Marantz is the Goldilocks transport. Detailed yet full-bodied.
The digital coax also has an impact. You can go crazy with digital cables, as you know. I started with Monoprice coax. I found a Pangea on eBay for about $80 all in and it is considerably more musical then the Monoprice.
Now, I need to get back to spinning some silver discs.
The improvement over stock is about 20-25% in my estimation. Stock it sounded better than the DAC in the Marantz CD player, which is surprising. I'm very happy with the results of the project. Thanks, Señor Oranda.
All this messing about with digital devices yielded some interesting results. Those folks who say "bits is bits" either don't have a revealing system or good ears. Or, they are deniers who have an axe to grind. All 3 transports I tried sounded different. The Shanling was thin, the Yamaha (between skips) was rather dark. The Marantz is the Goldilocks transport. Detailed yet full-bodied.
The digital coax also has an impact. You can go crazy with digital cables, as you know. I started with Monoprice coax. I found a Pangea on eBay for about $80 all in and it is considerably more musical then the Monoprice.
Now, I need to get back to spinning some silver discs.
oranda
Active Member
Interesting... this is the ChipQuick SMD-1 removal kit? Glad that it worked well.
Yes, it's a bit of a pain, and not incredibly robust, but seems to work well enough. I looked at some of the other adapters and that one gave the best access to allow for soldering of the pins. I've installed about 4 of them and all seem to be working great even after getting shipped across country.
You are very welcome and happy to hear that the SU-1 is compatible with your Marantz. That's a pretty nice CD player to start, so to finish a couple of notches up from that for under $150 is a big win in my book.
Amazing, right? Your ranking seems consistent with my observations, except of course for the Shanling which I've never tried.
baked_potato
Active Member
What nobody has ever been able to explain to me, an IT professional, is how a device that is built specifically to read and then transmit a packet of digital data to another device inadvertently transforms the data itself. Unless there is a serious defect in either device, transmission of digital data is a problem that was solved many decades ago. If there was some kind of 'interpretation' of a packet of bits that differs based on the quality of the networking components from point A to B then my entire professional career, of ensuring veracity and authenticity of digital evidence that is being transmitted many times from its origin to its ultimate destination, is in question.
To better understand your hypothesis, do you think that the error detection and correction is faulty in the networking components in one of the two devices, or is it that the CD transport is not in fact passing on the digital data, verbatim, from the CD, and is either applying equalization or lossy compression beforehand? If it's applying some equalization, that's something that should be advertised certainly.
Noise is another possible issue (from grounding or USB power isolation issues, for example) but if you're using optical than that wouldn't explain it.
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I'll quote one of my favorite artists, Sam Phillips:
"If I said I believe my eyes
And science can move my soul
I'd by lying"
Yours was a very respectful and thoughtful post and I don't mean disrespect your viewpoint. I'm sure your IT chops are beyond reproach. It just comes down to trusting your ears, which I know is a trigger to objectivists. It doesn't bother me one bit if someone wants to use scientific scrutiny to try to figure out what their ears are telling them. But many objectivists feel it's their duty to publicly destroy the false thinking of the subjectivists. Again, I am not accusing you of being polemical! You are trying to figure this dichotomy out through a scientific lens, which is totally valid.
I truly don't know why one transport would sound different from another. In theory they should all sound the same if reading the info correctly. But they don't. I'm pretty sure you could hear the difference if given the chance. After 60 years of being a musician and immersed in music I've learned I can trust my ears.
BTW, I used digital coax cable rather than optical.
"If I said I believe my eyes
And science can move my soul
I'd by lying"
Yours was a very respectful and thoughtful post and I don't mean disrespect your viewpoint. I'm sure your IT chops are beyond reproach. It just comes down to trusting your ears, which I know is a trigger to objectivists. It doesn't bother me one bit if someone wants to use scientific scrutiny to try to figure out what their ears are telling them. But many objectivists feel it's their duty to publicly destroy the false thinking of the subjectivists. Again, I am not accusing you of being polemical! You are trying to figure this dichotomy out through a scientific lens, which is totally valid.
I truly don't know why one transport would sound different from another. In theory they should all sound the same if reading the info correctly. But they don't. I'm pretty sure you could hear the difference if given the chance. After 60 years of being a musician and immersed in music I've learned I can trust my ears.
BTW, I used digital coax cable rather than optical.
baked_potato
Active Member
Understood, thank you for that response.
I've come across some smd op-amps that were glued down to the board. Exacto-knife seems to work well. You can carefully lift up the legs after unsoldering them to make sure that you indeed unsolder them all the way, and then you can use the knife to gently cut/pry the smd op amp from the board.
Just when you thought this thread was dead.....
I swapped out the Muses02 with a Sparkos SS3602. Wowza. It's not even in the same league. Even CDs that I kinda liked before are riveting. I used a Burson extender to allow it to be installed in the Cimmaron adapter. I just have to figure out how to enclose it in the diminutive SU-1 case. I may have to use a horizontal adapter and cut a hole in the top and make a new top panel of wood.
I also sprung for a Triode Wire Labs SPDIF cable, which is mind blowing. I did compare the Muses to the Sparkos while using the TWL cable.
I swapped out the Muses02 with a Sparkos SS3602. Wowza. It's not even in the same league. Even CDs that I kinda liked before are riveting. I used a Burson extender to allow it to be installed in the Cimmaron adapter. I just have to figure out how to enclose it in the diminutive SU-1 case. I may have to use a horizontal adapter and cut a hole in the top and make a new top panel of wood.
I also sprung for a Triode Wire Labs SPDIF cable, which is mind blowing. I did compare the Muses to the Sparkos while using the TWL cable.
oranda
Active Member
I was kinda hoping someone would come along and try one of the Sparkos opamps.
I hesitated due to the price, the fact that it did not fit nicely in the case, and the mixed reviews. But I can put up with some case modification if that's what it takes. How long have you had the Sparkos in there?
Just a couple CDs. I'm sure the TWL is contributing to the sound improvement.
I was able to get 15% from Sparkos off by providing an email.
It may be possible to bend and flatten these Burson extensions enough to jump over the vertical electronic element inside (I don't know what it is) and into the other "cavity". Right now it's just sitting on a shelf as a PCB.
I was able to get 15% from Sparkos off by providing an email.
It may be possible to bend and flatten these Burson extensions enough to jump over the vertical electronic element inside (I don't know what it is) and into the other "cavity". Right now it's just sitting on a shelf as a PCB.
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Gigantic
A big, big love
this has been my experience with both op amps in my Fosi ZA3 mono amps. If they fit, the Burson Audio V7 op amps are a step beyond the Sparkos.
oranda
Active Member
Very cool mod!
It will be interesting to hear what you think of the Sparkos after a couple of weeks. Those adapters are the exact ones I was looking at getting when I started considering discrete opamps. If you are interested in rolling further, the Bursons (V5i, V6, and V7) are also not cheap, but apparently compare favorably to the Sparkos.
I tired the hybrid discrete Oracle II 02 opamp in the SU-1 and preferred the MUSES02, but have yet to try a fully discrete opamp.