Canton Speaker Capacitor and Coil Reference Thread

[BijanBojan]

This is for bass drivers, i think it's ok except for bad,not so precise drawing. I will draw you for midrange and tweeter soon, don't have time. The part of crossover with resistors and two big capacitors in paralel and L8392 coil is reaposibol for DC(displacement controle). In this part you can change that 470uf with some hi quality electrolitic and some MKP/MKT capatitors in 40%/60% relationship. If you have money you can put all 470uf MKP/MKT. For that big 1000uf it will be too expensive and maybe not so better sound. For that one capacitor 100uf you can replace with MKT/MKP 2X47uf + 6uf. You don't need expensive capacitor in this position,MKT while be ok.
For resistors don't need to change,and this value of 68 Ohm is hard to find. You can put one resistor 33 Ohm or if you find 34 Ohm instead but i think this configuration is ok.

 

[BijanBojan]

This is for midrange and tweeter. I think it's ok, if someone sees mistake please correct me. Bought drivers,midrange and tweeter are connected in reverse phase.

 

[Zeus Odin]

You are quite right. I remember saying to myself that it is quite strange that there are no parallel components. But I said that *BEFORE* I learned what a mesh was. I should have revisited the existence of parallel components. I will spend the next few days studying your diagrams while I measure each component. It's quite obvious I have no idea what I am doing. Lol. Thank you so much.

I have suspended any budget for this project. I want the highest quality caps I can get at 100, 470, and 1000 mF. I definitely do not want electrolytic. Mouser has 220 mF and 560 mF film caps. Is that the best I can do?

 

[BijanBojan]

You are quite right. I remember saying to myself that it is quite strange that there are no parallel components. But I said that *BEFORE* I learned what a mesh was. I should have revisited the existence of parallel components. I will spend the next few days studying your diagrams while I measure each component. It's quite obvious I have no idea what I am doing. Lol. Thank you so much.

I have suspended any budget for this project. I want the highest quality caps I can get at 100, 470, and 1000 mF. I definitely do not want electrolytic. Mouser has 220 mF and 560 mF film caps. Is that the best I can do?

I think so.. thay have 560uf from Kemet and 210uf. Combine values until you get what you need. For that DC filter is 1470uf total:
560+560+210+140. Thay have 140uf from Vishay and Kemet

 

[Zeus Odin]

Understood. Why do you think Canton made the DC filter? Why do you think they chose components that must be film (average) or electrolytic (below average) capacitors? You cannot choose pure foil caps for these.

I just ordered a glue gun, desoldering tools, and commercial isopropyl alcohol. All components are glued to the PCB. The alcohol will evaporate quickly. Is there anything I should be aware of when trying to unglue the inductors?

 

[BijanBojan]

Understood. Why do you think Canton made the DC filter? Why do you think they chose components that must be film (average) or electrolytic (below average) capacitors? You cannot choose pure foil caps for these.

I just ordered a glue gun, desoldering tools, and commercial isopropyl alcohol. All components are glued to the PCB. The alcohol will evaporate quickly. Is there anything I should be aware of when trying to unglue the inductors?

DC(displacement controle) filter how Canton calls it is a hi-pass filter implemented to better controle bass drivers,this filter don't allow low frequency, below 20Hz or frequency near that range to go thru drivers. I think they achieved better time and phase control with this filter. Personally I don't like anything in crossover if it's not necessary. They use in this part of crossover electrolytic caps because it is more expensive to use foil. In many cases you don't need anything better than MKP or MKT caps. I had cases when MKT has better sound than MKP,in other cases MKP was better. In general good MKP is everything you need. You can try double metallised MKP,from Kemet i think they cal R76 series. Canton use R75 MKP in crossover and they have good sound.
Abouth that glue,it's not hard glue, you can gently pull component after desoldering. You can pull component apart on same thime when desoldering or you can heat connection and remove Tin with Solder Sucker or Desoldering Wire.

 

[Zeus Odin]

I bought a solder sucker and desoldering wire a few days ago, so I am on the right track. I have completely disassembled the woofer crossover. The isopropyl alcohol arrives today. I will clean up the crossover.

I need more practice with the solder sucker. I think my heat was too high and applied too long. :-( I should have applied solder on top of the wick first. Once I did that the wick easily extracted the solder. I don't plan to use the original crossover any more. Do you think this crossover still works?

 

[BijanBojan]

From picture don't look healthy, but you can use it in any case. If you tear up and broke that copper foil witch connect elements of crossover you can't connect components again. But because that copper foil is large you can solder parts half centimetres from original hole. If this whole copper foil is isolated you need to remove isolation (transparent tint over copper foil) gently. You can scrap/scratch that transparent isolation. Probably there is chemicals for this purpose but I don't know.

 

[BijanBojan]

Example
You put legs of component through holes on crossover and connect them on different places than original. But if you want to put larger or different components than original you will need to drill new holes on crossover. Of course gently with small drill and start to drill from that side with foil. There is different possibilities of course...

 

[Zeus Odin]

@Bratwurst7s these two inductors are not in your database. Please add. The only meter I have that measures inductance is the DE-5000.

BLM 7808
5.684 mH

BLM 8392
30.44 mH

The capacitors I tested on both the Fluke 87V and DE-5000. I see why Fluke is considered the industry standard. Both meters were consistent but due to leakage I think the Fluke is more accurate. The resistor measurements are pretty close.

Canton 100 µF 35 VAC TF-F Bipolar 1664 K6
Fluke 102.8 µF
DE-5000 97.2 µF

Canton 470 µF 23 VAC R-F Bipolar 5440 K6
Fluke 518 µF
DE-5000 464 µF

Canton 1000 µF 23 VAC R-F Bipolar 4340 K9
Fluke 1094 µF
DE-5000 1006 µF

10W 68 RJ
Fluke 66.4 ohm
DE-5000 66.04 ohm

10W 68 RJ
Fluke 68.3 ohm
DE-5000 68.00 ohm

 

[Zeus Odin]

View attachment 2508008

Example
You put legs of component through holes on crossover and connect them on different places than original. But if you want to put larger or different components than original you will need to drill new holes on crossover. Of course gently with small drill and start to drill from that side with foil. There is different possibilities of course...

I don't plan to use to use this board again but I will reassemble it before storing it. The new components will be much larger and need new boards.

 

[Zeus Odin]

@Bratwurst7s these 2 components are not in your database. There are two 8402's:

Canton 8402
Fluke 57.3 µF
DE-5000 57.1 µF

Canton 8402
Fluke 58.1 µF
DE-5000 57.9 µF

BLM 15842
Fluke 0.6 mH

Here are the rest of the components from the tweeter / midrange crossover.

Canton MKT 1µ5 J 100VDC 1319 1333
Fluke 1.54 µF
DE-5000 1.5248 µF

Canton MKP 4µ7 J 160VDC 9772
Fluke 4.71 µF
DE-5000 4.718 µF

Canton MKP 10µ J 160VDC 9756
Fluke 9.92 µF
DE-5000 9.927 µF

Canton MKP 12µ J 160VDC 9755
Fluke 12.0 µF
DE-5000 12.011 µF

10W 1Ω J
Fluke 1.1 Ω
DE-5000 0.962 Ω

10W 2.2Ω J
Fluke 2.3 Ω
DE-5000 2.174 Ω

10W 33Ω J
Fluke 33.2 Ω
DE-5000 33.02 Ω

10W 2.2Ω J
Fluke 2.2 Ω
DE-5000 2.154 Ω

 

[Zeus Odin]

I am in the process of restoring my crossovers. Thank you @BijanBojan I certainly could not have done this without you. The friend that started all of this crossover upgrade drama has Tekton Moab speakers which are perfect for upgrading. Tekton actually gives you crossover and other information to help you! My friend has been trying to get me to change over to Moab speakers. I spoke with him on Saturday. However, on Sunday another friend who owns a hifi shop says, Hey I have a pair of Legacy Aeris speakers that I will sell $10k below list price. Now we are still talking a lot of money; however, Legacy Aeris are my *DREAM* own-until-you-die speakers. Now guess what was my first question: What's in the crossovers?!? Lol
https://legacyaudio.com/products/view/aeris

 

[BijanBojan]

I am in the process of restoring my crossovers. Thank you @BijanBojan I certainly could not have done this without you. The friend that started all of this crossover upgrade drama has Tekton Moab speakers which are perfect for upgrading. Tekton actually gives you crossover and other information to help you! My friend has been trying to get me to change over to Moab speakers. I spoke with him on Saturday. However, on Sunday another friend who owns a hifi shop says, Hey I have a pair of Legacy Aeris speakers that I will sell $10k below list price. Now we are still talking a lot of money; however, Legacy Aeris are my *DREAM* own-until-you-die speakers. Now guess what was my first question: What's in the crossovers?!? Lol
https://legacyaudio.com/products/view/aeris

Those speakers are really good, newer heart them alive but from specifications they look really good . Crossovers is good, of course you can upgrade some things (maybe resistors) and it's illuminated! woofers are powered by its own amplifier and they don't have pasivne crossover.
If you like sound and design (Grof Dracula Castle) go for it

 

[Zeus Odin]

I've listened to them a number of times and the quality is just off the charts. They are truly awesome. Dracula Castle!!! Ha ha ha. I do love Dracula and vampires in general. As usual you are absolutely correct, the sharp edges do look Dracula-like. Even at the steeply discounted price they are 4x what I paid for the Cantons. I do love the special light just for the crossovers. I never knew that existed, so I will see them again this weekend to turn the light on to see what the crossovers look like. The crossover in the link is some of the best point to point wiring I've ever seen.

 

[oldfashioned]

Hi Folks,
I am new and from Germany. Sorry for my bad englisch - I was in school in the sixtees of the last century.
Yesterday I fetched two speakers ct 90 won at ebay. The first box had no sound on HT and MT, although the seller declared: they had full function. So he had to decrease the price (75 Euro).
I opened the box and explored that:



I could not believe, but the MT and the HT are still working!
The list of bratwurst7s was very helpful for me to check the remainig parts.
So i have to create a new crossover.
with kind regards
oldfashioned

 

[BijanBojan]

Omg, totally burned crossover... i always wondering how some have hart to do something like that. Fortunately you have values of components written on bord. Of course replace all capacitors and inductors in bought crossovers

 

[oldfashioned]

Omg, totally burned crossover... i always wondering how some have hart to do something like that. Fortunately you have values of components written on bord. Of course replace all capacitors and inductors in bought crossovers

I 've made already a list for my dealer. I won't replace the FK-coils, but the other air-coils.
this crossover has obviously other parts than the kown schematic:



Perhaps other people know something about these changes (?)

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Hi Folks,
I am new and from Germany. Sorry for my bad englisch - I was in school in the sixtees of the last century.
Yesterday I fetched two speakers ct 90 won at ebay. The first box had no sound on HT and MT, although the seller declared: they had full function. So he had to decrease the price (75 Euro).
I opened the box and explored that:

View attachment 2521480

I could not believe, but the MT and the HT are still working!
The list of bratwurst7s was very helpful for me to check the remainig parts.
So i have to create a new crossover.
with kind regards
oldfashioned

Wow. That got hot!

What does the trace side look like?

My friend morfeora has a detailed thread concerning the CT-90:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...almost-the-entire-boxes.801060/#post-11119545

Pdf files of the crossovers can be found attached to post#17:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...almost-the-entire-boxes.801060/#post-11128034

That should get you started but it would be a good idea to start a new thread for your project. You will get more support that way, and it helps other people later.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I 've made already a list for my dealer. I won't replace the FK-coils, but the other air-coils.
this crossover has obviously other parts than the kown schematic:

View attachment 2521566

Perhaps other people know something about these changes (?)

I am very very busy right now, but if you can give me a few days I will compare your sketch to the Canton schematic.

Please, start a new thread for the CT-90's. You will get more support that way and this thread can stay focused on generalities. I am not being unfriendly, just practical. When you get your new thread started I will stop by and help. I'll also let morfeora (Rodolfo) know and he will most likely stop in also.

Cheers,
James