Confused about wattage...

[mrkmpn]

I've finally done what I should have before and looked around to see what your speakers are. So, if they are '70s vintage, have you de-ox'd the L-pads? Have the caps been replaced? I looked back through the thread but haven't seen anything said about the speakers themselves other than placement.

Cheers,
James

Hmmm, My original set up was bought for my for my birthday a couple of years ago by my girlfriend. A friend of ours that works with her actually found everything for her on craigslist. He knows the 1st thing to try on old gear is to deoxit connections, so I would assume he would have done that if there were any issues, but if he thought they sounded fine he might not have. I know he replaced a cap or something on the sansui because of fuzzy sounding channel or something. I'll have to ask him.

I have to look up L-Pads... I'm not even familiar with that term.

*Edit*
Ahh.... the little frequency balance thing... I'll just hit them with some deoxit myself and take a look and see if I can tell if the caps look like they've been done recently.

 

[nclh77]

There exist a vocal group of individuals who claim a speaker cannot be harmed by a clipping amp. That only over power will harm a speaker. I have been a victim of their wrath in the past. I say, don't run any amp/speaker in a clipping situation ever. What is the point? What good is going to come out of it? Hot amp, hot voice coils are a recipe for unhappy times.

 

[Adda]

Ahh.... the little frequency balance thing... I'll just hit them with some deoxit myself and take a look and see if I can tell if the caps look like they've been done recently.

As for caps in speakers, only worry about electrolytics, poly caps USUALLY don't age, but may be worth replacing if they have poor tolerances, or if you are looking to upgrade rather then maintain.

 

[rnorton]

It's funny how people read something and arbitrarily skip over some words, apparently they have favorites. As stated clearly about volume knob position, 2:00 is rule of thumb to leave headroom for the amp, this has absolutely nothing to do with wattage output or speaker power handling. Do you kids just sit at home looking at a computer screen waiting for the opportunity to totally misread posts on purpose. Solely for the purpose to troll and stir things up? Get a life.

IMO, the two o'clock position means squat as a rule of thumb. Every amp is different. It might be true for your amp. It depends entirely on the level of the input device, any gain in stages before the pot, and the linearity of the potentiometer itself.

 

[rnorton]

There exist a vocal group of individuals who claim a speaker cannot be harmed by a clipping amp. That only over power will harm a speaker. I have been a victim of their wrath in the past. I say, don't run any amp/speaker in a clipping situation ever. What is the point? What good is going to come out of it? Hot amp, hot voice coils are a recipe for unhappy times.

When I did repair for a living, nearly every tweeter I had to replace was due to someone trying to party with an underpowered amp. You, sir, are correct. (Now they'll come after ME).

 

[rnorton]

Thanks Kingshead, I might take a couple pics later, but I'm pretty happy with how it sounds now. It's not perfect, but as you said (which I already knew) speaker placement makes a huge difference. I remember reading some articles years ago about concert setups, and how speaker placement could solve issues that doubling amp power couldn't. (seems like I remember doubling power only adds about 3db or something to that effect?) but like I said, I really have no other options as to where to place the stereo and/or speakers. Although, I think if I raise the speakers off the floor it might help some.

My "living room" is basically what, at one time, was a dining room and living room. Like I said, it's a very small house. I noticed tonight, after getting the switch cleaned, that if I sit right about where the dining room/living room meets, it's just about perfect. I do wish the bass was a little more tight/thumpy, if that makes sense, but at this point I really can't complain... the music is now really really clean and balanced sounding compared to what it was.

Better to get that bass from an inexpensive used subwoofer from CL than to try to force it out of speakers that weren't meant for it.

 

[mrkmpn]

As for caps in speakers, only worry about electrolytics, poly caps USUALLY don't age, but may be worth replacing if they have poor tolerances, or if you are looking to upgrade rather then maintain.

What type of improvement would I see from upgrading them? And what should I look for in relation to the existing caps as far as upgrading?

 

[Bratwurst7s]

What type of improvement would I see from upgrading them? And what should I look for in relation to the existing caps as far as upgrading?

If your speakers have electrolytic caps their ESR (equivalent series resistance) has probably gone up in the last 40 years (slowly starting to act as a resistor and lowering output) and their capacitance value might have drifted, changing the crossover point. (If that is wrong someone please correct me)
Replacing them with new electrolytics will restore things to the original values. As far as upgrading to poly film caps, I haven't done that yet so have no personal experience to relate, but the upgrade is said to improve the sound in the mid and upper ranges. Someone else will be sure to join in and explain that better.

James

 

[whoaru99]

What type of improvement would I see from upgrading them? And what should I look for in relation to the existing caps as far as upgrading?

Electrolytic caps are inexpensive.

I suggest replacing them with new, equivalent parts. If you go right to some sort of "upgrade" how will you know if simply the new caps made a change or if it was the difference in caps.

Some people don't care, as long as they think it's better, but for yearn to know more about the why. Did the sound change simply because the caps are new, or is it because they're a different kind of cap?

 

[Adda]

What type of improvement would I see from upgrading them? And what should I look for in relation to the existing caps as far as upgrading?

Some people will tell you special audio caps make no difference at all.

I'll tell you that they do, even though I have only compared a small number of caps.

The capacitors have a sound signature of their own, and can be used to voice the speaker, they don't make a huge difference.
But if you like the speakers and want to voice them to your taste, go read about the sound of different capacitors, there is plenty of info out there.

I use ClariyCap ESA's I find them to be quite cost effective, they sound smooth, clear although slightly dark, suits my speakers and system fine (I also use them as output coupling caps in my Atoll DAC 100).

Only get in to caps if you have money to spend though, fix what needs fixing first, if there are electrolytics in the filter, I recommend you replace those with poly caps if you can.
You can parallel several capacitors to add up their capacitance, fx. a 3.3uF and 2.2uF in parallel gives you 5.5uF.

 

[whoaru99]

Be advised about space and other modifications necessary to do it.

Poly caps are much larger than the equivalent value electrolytic caps.

 

[mrkmpn]

Some people will tell you special audio caps make no difference at all.

I'll tell you that they do, even though I have only compared a small number of caps.

The capacitors have a sound signature of their own, and can be used to voice the speaker, they don't make a huge difference.
But if you like the speakers and want to voice them to your taste, go read about the sound of different capacitors, there is plenty of info out there.

I use ClariyCap ESA's I find them to be quite cost effective, they sound smooth, clear although slightly dark, suits my speakers and system fine (I also use them as output coupling caps in my Atoll DAC 100).

Only get in to caps if you have money to spend though, fix what needs fixing first, if there are electrolytics in the filter, I recommend you replace those with poly caps if you can.
You can parallel several capacitors to add up their capacitance, fx. a 3.3uF and 2.2uF in parallel gives you 5.5uF.

Ok, I can definitely afford to buy caps for it, though I'll read up on it more before doing anything more than replacing what's already in there. I know what capacitors are, and on a basic level what they do... but I have yet to wrap my mind around how they work as far as the various applications they're used for.

I had a basic electronics course about 11 years ago when getting my degree in IT, but my knowledge in the area has faded since I haven't utilized it in about the same amount of time. All of this really makes me want to take more classes on electronics, I just don't think I have the time or money to do that for just a hobby.

 

[mrkmpn]

Here's what the caps look like... they look like they'd be old compared to what most caps I've looked at look like, but I'm sure could be wrong.

The markings are:
T.I.(Texas Instruments?)
203
7uf 30VNP (Seems I remember NP is Non Polar)
65 deg. C 7602
Mexico

 

[Superampman]

When I did repair for a living, nearly every tweeter I had to replace was due to someone trying to party with an underpowered amp. You, sir, are correct. (Now they'll come after ME).

Apparently what happens is while the attempt to gain volume from the frequency range that has used up it's allotted resource, ie: the bottom-end, those frequencies that have lots to spare, ie: the mid-range and top-end continue to increase in volume while the desired range does not. Resulting in blown mids and tweeters. The reason bigger amps solve the problem is obviously that now, desired volumes at the bottom can be achieved without unknowingly taxing the capabilities of the upper ranges.

 

[whoaru99]

Here's what the caps look like... they look like they'd be old compared to what most caps I've looked at look like, but I'm sure could be wrong.

To me, that looks like it is already a film-type cap.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Here's what the caps look like... they look like they'd be old compared to what most caps I've looked at look like, but I'm sure could be wrong.

The markings are:
T.I.(Texas Instruments?)
203
7uf 30VNP (Seems I remember NP is Non Polar)
65 deg. C 7602
Mexico

The spade connectors on what looks like the L-pad switch look like they are corroded, that surface speckling/bumps appearance.

James

 

[mrkmpn]

The spade connectors on what looks like the L-pad switch look like they are corroded, that surface speckling/bumps appearance.

James

If you're talking about the square black thing to the left of the capacitor, that's the fuse and it's just dust. The camera flash seems to really bring to life dust you don't really see just looking at something. When I had it open it all looked really good.

The L-pad is the white thing in the lower left corner, and has no spade connections, just a single wire soldered to the top on one side.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

If you're talking about the square black thing to the left of the capacitor, that's the fuse and it's just dust. The camera flash seems to really bring to life dust you don't really see just looking at something. When I had it open it all looked really good.

The L-pad is the white thing in the lower left corner, and has no spade connections, just a single wire soldered to the top on one side.

:thmbsp:

 

[davesnewTT]

To me, that looks like it is already a film-type cap.

They look very similar to the original caps in my Wharfedales and KEFs, which were definitely electrolytics.

 

[mrkmpn]

They look very similar to the original caps in my Wharfedales and KEFs, which were definitely electrolytics.

Is there a way to find out? I've always identified them by the cylindrical shape and the little seams on the top of the cap. Obviously that doesn't help me if they're not all like that.

*Edit*
This thread seems to agree that they're electrolytic caps: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67603