• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Do different turntable brands & models really produce different sound quality?

Wagonmaster1

Wagonmaster1

New Member
This is probably a dumb question, but I don't understand how specific models/brands of turntable could affect sound quality. I understand why needles make a difference, and I understand how some turntables might be more or less durable than others, but do turntables really "interpret" the sound differently?

If it really does make a difference, what brand of used turntables should I be looking at with a budget under $100?
 
Register to hide this ad
Big subject. Short answer.

Dragging a tiny needle along a groove in a record in a timely manner is harder than it seems. Depending on the how critically you listen, and the resolving level of the rest of your system, you may or may not notice a difference from one table to another.

Besides the potential intricacies of the tonearm and needle, there is the system propelling the platter, and how smoothly and quietly it does that job, as well as how precisely. Once you’ve heard a really accurate turntable, it’s like hearing a band with a great drummer. It perks up your ears.

There are great sounding tables in many price levels, one need not be rich to get something really good sounding.
 
With a budget of under $100, Id hold onto my money until I had about $200:) Then I’d keep my eyes open for a used technics, jvc, Kenwood, or denon direct drive table. These are generally reliable easy to use, and sound quite good on a modest budget.
 
Certain tables and their tonearms play nicely with certain cartridges too. It’s rather complicated. Some tables, cheaply made ones, can introduce a lot of noise or rumble in the signal. Setup also makes a huge difference. My system was decently nice in 1981 but I didn’t know how to set up a cartridge at the time.

I almost gave up on vinyl altogether after CD came out, but my brother brought over a technics 1700 with an Empire 2000e/iii cartridge all set up perfectly.

It was mind boggling how well it played. That setup or something very similar can still be found out there for around $120-$200 and with proper setup, decent cartridge, you can get a lot of beautiful music.

For a budget, I think you should look for a direct drive, quartz locked, and learn how to properly set it up. Clean records and you are on your way. It’s a big rabbit hole but an enjoyable one. Good luck. Some of the brand names are given earlier. Not all are quartz locked here but I have had good results Technics 1700, Denon, Pioneer PL-4,5 or 7. JVC QL-7 or 4, JVC LF-41, Hitachi 353, hitachi ht-45, Sony PS T3, or similar variants. These are ones that I have had that were decent ones and could be found for reasonable prices. Most have automatic features but I have eliminated those features on a few of them so they are completely manual.

Try and get similar design/family models that are not automatic but manual. Manual eliminates a lot of problems and noise. It’s not hard to get started. I’m finding it hard not to buy an extra table every year.
 
I wouldn´t say brand sound but more go with type-of-tt-sound in that direkt drives, belt drives and idler drives all can have diffrent sound characteristics. And then we have different plinth setups to consider: massive/heavy with everything firmly bolted together, suspended decks, light plinths etc, etc... Throw different tonearms and cartridges into the mix and the confusion becomes total :D
 
Good question. I would feel comfortable with the suggestions made above.^^^. Married to Duals here. Childhood thing. Have owned many Technics, Pioneers, Thorens and Yamaha. One thing these have had in common. Most have some form of Shure carts. Three Dual 1219 have three Shures. A M55,M91ED and a V15 type III. Have a 1019 with a M44. Nice detailed sound on these. Over 50 yrs I feel carts make a bigger difference. A Dual 1229 I got back in 1999 had a Shure V15. Did not sound all that great. Sold it. Turns out the V15 type III wasn’t a good example. Picked the one mentioned about with a broken needle. Bought a generic need fearing I would not like it. Paid $23 for it with a Garrard Zero 100. This version sounds much better than the first one. Liked enough I got a JICO HE stylus. Sadly Shure is out of the cart business. A couple of weeks ago I was on the JICO site. They are making a version of the M44. Got one and put on a new Sled by Best. Using on my shop Dual 1219. Sound is very detailed with good base. As good as a Shure. My answer to a difficult question. Welcome to AK,

Eric
 
Rapscallion said:
With a budget of under $100, Id hold onto my money until I had about $200:) Then I’d keep my eyes open for a used technics, jvc, Kenwood, or denon direct drive table. These are generally reliable easy to use, and sound quite good on a modest budget.
Click to expand...
this

Lots of decent used tables here locally for about a $150, just gotta be patient.
Check the thrift stores and CL
Technics, Pioneer, Kenwood, etc.
 
Pardon me, maybe I'm way off here, but does anyone else smell a fishing expedition? Very interesting the two topics picked by the OP since joining. :dunno::jump:
 
Wagonmaster1 said:
This is probably a dumb question, but I don't understand how specific models/brands of turntable could affect sound quality. I understand why needles make a difference, and I understand how some turntables might be more or less durable than others, but do turntables really "interpret" the sound differently?
Click to expand...
Turntables with better design and with more precision in manufacture can simply get more music out of the groove than a lesser player. Linn Products used to explain it something like this: The only thing that makes sound from the cartridge is the relative movement of the cantilever to the cartridge body, and information in the record groove can be measured in millionths of an inch. Any slop in the main bearing, tonearm bearings, tonearm mount, cartridge/headshell interface, etc., results in loss of information because the wiggles in the groove no longer result in that movement of the cantilever, but is lost to movement in parts that should be rigid. For example, removable headshells, rubber "isolation" blocks, nylon headshell screws, etc., are design features that reduce the rigidity and performance of tonearms.

A question becomes at what price point you get the kind of precision quality that will really make a difference. In Stereophile's survey of several budget cartridges, they included a $9000 turntable/tonearm setup from Feickert as well as models from Linn, Pioneer, and Technics. Part of their conclusion was, "On the Linn LP12 and the Dr. Feickert Blackbird, the Audio-Technica AT95 sounded dramatically more controlled and powerful, more nuanced and sophisticated, than it ever did on the Pioneer PLX-1000 or that stoop-sale Technics SL-1200 I modified in GD9. On the Blackbird-Schick deck, these so-called entry-level cartridges played recordings with a layered, three-dimensional complexity that I thought was impossible at these price points. Quiet musical passages were not only quieter; they were filled with magic little details that got noised over, dulled over, or disappeared entirely on the Pioneer and Technics 'tables." https://www.stereophile.com/content...nica-goldring-lp-gear-phono-cartridges-page-2

If it really does make a difference, what brand of used turntables should I be looking at with a budget under $100?
Click to expand...
The least expensive turntables that impressed me as getting more musical information out of the groove than others at their price points are models from Rega, and, I think, mostly on the strength of their tonearm quality. I don't think you'll find something like that at the price point you're looking at, but the good news is that music can be enjoyed on much less costly equipment. I have Audio Technica's cheapest model, the LP60X, in my bedroom, and I get a surprising amount of pleasure out of this $139 turntable.
 
Any recommendation is going to be pretty much meaningless with your budget. $100 or less is going to either get you something lousy, good, or excellent depending on effort and luck. I think you are just going to have to settle for what comes your way :dunno:.
 
To the original question - yes. While there are still tables I’d like to have, it’s not so much for sound quality improvement over what I’m using, but for interest in other quality tables of different design. For example, while I have several very good belt drives, I don’t have a nice idler or direct drive to play with. But yeah; they can sound different.
I have to agree with what’s already been said - a $100 budget isn’t likely to buy you anything nice, unless you get lucky at a yard or estate sale. Most people know more or less what they’re selling though.
 
As others have said you are going to need a lot of patience and luck finding a decent running table for $100 or less. Best bet would be a simple vintage entry level Japanese table from the 70s-80s, millions made. Spend all your spare time scouring the local internet listings and if you see something interesting race to check it out before the flippers/resellers get there. Be warned records/turntables no longer a bargain, not for the financially impaired.
 
First off a turntable doesn't drag a stylus around a record, but mostly it drags the record around while the stylus sits their, following a groove.

What you really want is a table that doesn't have any sound just perfectly quiet so all you hear is what the stylus picks up from the vinyl. It is more diffuclt than what it would seem as every where you look their is opportunities for vibrations or sound other than what is on the record to be introduced. In most cases the cheaper tables add more sounds than an expensive well designed table and that in terms of a turntable is bad..
 
Wagonmaster1 said:
So you're not supposed to ask questions on these forums? lol.

I don't have any particular audiophile knowledge to share, so I came here to learn from others.
Click to expand...

Don’t worry about anyone that isn’t helping. Some people forget about the humble beginnings.

I’m still learning everyday and learned something new from this wonderful thread that you started with your questions. I learned that it’s possible to get fantastic results from a table that can be found for under 2k. Sounds crazy but I didn’t think it was possible.

Thought about your questions and the more I thought about it, I am leaning towards a pioneer PL - 4, 5 or 7. They have a graphite arm that’s light and rigid. Works well with high compliance cartridges. Delivers great results for the price. Made in Japan. Can be found from $79 to $130 or so when I last bought. A little bit of a sleeper but that’s a good thing.

And welcome to AK. Lots of helpful folks. Put the negative ones on ignore. It’s reversible but sometimes a good option to avoid poor replies.

Please let us know what you find when you decide. Good luck!
 
Sarcasm ON... All turntables sound the same so send me your Thorens and Technics 1200's and I will send you a brand new SoundDesign or Lloyds, you pick which. Bearing tolerance, Tonearm construction, motor accuracy and isolation are just Hifi mumbo jumbo. Sarcasm OFF.
 
Wagonmaster1 said:
So you're not supposed to ask questions on these forums? lol.

I don't have any particular audiophile knowledge to share, so I came here to learn from others.
Click to expand...
Good to hear, just making sure as trolls do come to this forum. I just found your first two topics interesting, given you asked about “active” vs. “passive” speakers. As you saw, you got some strange reactions because of the choice of terminology. And asking about a TT for under $100.00 seemed a bit odd as well. Any google search for turntable will show you that likely less than .5% of TT’s are available out there from any source for under $100.00

If you stick around, you will learn and hopefully become a regular member. Welcome.
 
I think for someone starting out, choosing an affordable sum, and asking for help choosing something that might be outstanding for that price, is sensible.
But answering that question is complicated, because whether you find a holy grail turntable or a piece of dreck at the next tag sale, thrift shop, dump, friend's house, storage unit sale, or whatever, and get it for free, or pay through the nose, depends. It depends on what the turntable is, it depends (enormously) on what condition it is in, and it depends on what the price is. Free is generally good - though not always. Rarely is it good to pay top dollar for a turntable you don't know the quality, condition, or value of. But sometimes, it is worth it - frustrating, but true.
The more you know, the better off you are. But knowing what sells for lots of money on Ebay, while useful information, isn't the same as knowing how to tell quality from mass market, or how to tell ridden hard and put away wet from immaculate condition.
In general, turntables that are broken, missing parts, covered in nicotene, or are clearly entry level are worth little. There are a huge number of tables out there that are fine, and will please you, but have no cachet, so are not salable for a profit, but might fit you perfectly. If you keep your expenditures low, and put the word out to your friends that you are looking, I suspect you will find something very satisfactory and well within your budget.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom