Do different turntable brands & models really produce different sound quality?

[KentTeffeteller]

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Okay I currently have 12 tables floating around the house. 6 up and running. Everyone needs to be able to have 1 or 2 per room. So it took me a while to locate it.

The Pl-5 is annoying with the speed issues. I’m going to go through it again and eliminate everything down circuit wise to a 33 1/3 rpm only if I can. Some of the circuit is on a board on the back of the motor so I will see. I don’t use it anymore because every once in awhile it will slow down on its own and rather annoying.

The PL-4 was shipped to me improperly packed with platter attached and shipped usps. Well it was used as a football obviously on the way over here and now it’s a parts table only and packed away somewhere special.

But finally I snapped a pic of the pl-5. Fully automatic but not QL.

You love what you love. You also did something I love. You prepared yourself for life with your favorite turntables. You stockpiled spare parts. You can keep yours alive, and running when most people otherwise could not have. I get it and admire what you have done. I keep a few things with my own, knowing their age, and parts scarcity can take one out of use for a while. Cast offs for spare parts. I like your thinking.

 

[MitsuMan]

View attachment 2629590

Okay I currently have 12 tables floating around the house. 6 up and running. Everyone needs to be able to have 1 or 2 per room. So it took me a while to locate it.

The Pl-5 is annoying with the speed issues. I’m going to go through it again and eliminate everything down circuit wise to a 33 1/3 rpm only if I can. Some of the circuit is on a board on the back of the motor so I will see. I don’t use it anymore because every once in awhile it will slow down on its own and rather annoying.

The PL-4 was shipped to me improperly packed with platter attached and shipped usps. Well it was used as a football obviously on the way over here and now it’s a parts table only and packed away somewhere special.

But finally I snapped a pic of the pl-5. Fully automatic but not QL.

I only have 4 up and running.

 

[desertrat748]

You say it better. And I am saying "Maintainable for average common people". To clarify.

Oh I agree with maintainable and it’s not as easy as a 1/2 “ headshell. I wish they didn’t do that sleeve with their headshell. It’s a little bit of a pain I agree.

I’ve said so much that I don’t know where I said “better “ or in w context but it’s just an idea for a better table than what the op stated at the start. Just an option and my opinion. Not meant to say anything else.

But there are a ton of them out there with the multiple models. Some were overseas only. I think I will pick up a headshell now that I have dug out another one today.

 

[desertrat748]

You love what you love. You also did something I love. You prepared yourself for life with your favorite turntables. You stockpiled spare parts. You can keep yours alive, and running when most people otherwise could not have. I get it and admire what you have done. I keep a few things with my own, knowing their age, and parts scarcity can take one out of use for a while. Cast offs for spare parts. I like your thinking.

I have Hitachi, JVC, Technics, Sony,
Pioneer and Onkyo. DD and belt. Had old AR my father purchased and a few others that I can’t even remember. AR along with Fisher 500c were stolen so that’s that.

All of them have their pluses and minuses. All are not rare enough to worry about. 1/2 are not better than what the OP I think wanted. But, if I want something on the cheap that has a decent arm, I would look at the PL- 7 QL. That series is a sleeper under the radar. Looking at new, OP is looking at $350-$400 to get in the same level as one of the sleeper tables from the late 70’s to ‘82 or so. OP needs some bang for the buck and mere suggestion on my part.

Hitachi is another that is sometimes overlooked. The high end JVC used to be sleepers but not anymore. Technics like 1200 were never sleepers, pricey, and usually need work since they have been used a lot from most.

Of all the ones that I have, I prefer the JVC QL A7. Lots of innovation went into it. But it has the 1/2” headshell and S arm that can handle a wide range of carts. So I don’t disagree with you on that at all.

 

[desertrat748]

Were you talking about a some different tables you have then, because you mentioned not having quartz lock? The PL-2 through PL-9 were all quartz locked. Just a bit confused. And I just got my new Mani2 last weekend. Still burning it in but I'm very pleased with it so far, even after having to wait almost 2 months to get it!

Oh do tell on the mani 2. I think they have a new op amp so I would be curious. I’m testing out a hot rodded Hagerman Bugle 2 with some design changes. I’m going to swap out the op-amps with the same ones as your mani 2. How’s the bass response in your M2?

 

[desertrat748]

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Old, old pic of my PL-8 with longhorned grado gold w/8mz stylus. It sports a vintage Empire OP5 currently but doesn't get much use. Now my office system is an SL-1700 Mk I with AT 440mla. It kicked the Pioneer to the curb.
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I like your pl-8! Fancy. Looks well built.

 

[MitsuMan]

Oh do tell on the mani 2. I think they have a new op amp so I would be curious. I’m testing out a hot rodded Hagerman Bugle 2 with some design changes. I’m going to swap out the op-amps with the same ones as your mani 2. How’s the bass response in your M2?

The bass response was the first thing I noticed. I’m still burning it in but I’m very happy with the sound so far.

 

[BillWojo]

@desertrat748, I'm a big JVC fan myself. Your JVC QL-A7 was my introduction to the Victor line of TT. I was shocked at how good it was. I now use a Victor CL2P constrained layer 2 arm plinth with armboards, very heavy build with a TT71 motor unit, the same motor unit that you have. Using a Victor UA-7045 tonearm on the right side and an Audio Technica ATP-12T arm in the rear position. Using various Denon DL-103 carts.
This is my reference table and it performs beautifully.

BillWojo

 

[wasclywabbit]

My favorite TT is the Kyocera PL-601 I currently use. It's exceptionally quiet, beating out a Linn Sondek costing twice as much. The arm and platter are anchored to a resonant resistant ceramic base that is completely suspended from the plinth. No external vibration dampers or isolation mounts are required. I've owned Technics, Dual and other mid-level models over the years that were noisier and vibration sensitive. Kyocera is not a household name because there weren't many produced (due to their relatively short run in the home stereo market).

 

[desertrat748]

My favorite TT is the Kyocera PL-601 I currently use. It's exceptionally quiet, beating out a Linn Sondek costing twice as much. The arm and platter are anchored to a resonant resistant ceramic base that is completely suspended from the plinth. No external vibration dampers or isolation mounts are required. I've owned Technics, Dual and other mid-level models over the years that were noisier and vibration sensitive. Kyocera is not a household name because there weren't many produced (due to their relatively short run in the home stereo market).
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Didn’t know this model existed. All I can think of is their 901 model!

 

[wasclywabbit]

That was their first turntable, actually made by Micro Seiki. It cost $3,500 without the tonearm. The PL-601 (semi- automatic) and PL-701 (fully automatic) came later and were of their manufacture, with the possible exception of the tonearm that may have been outsourced. Both were more modestly priced in the $350 - $450 range. They come up for sale now and again. Mine sits 6 feet from a 12" sub without any rumble or feedback. Their isolation is that good.

 

[cgutz]

I am always interested in the "best" vintage turntable for $XXX question. Here are my observations:

If you go by the MSRP for equipment when it was new, that question is pertinent. However, 40-50 years of use and abuse makes the question more complicated. Factors such as current condition and asking price and local market for used equipment (turntables have to be shipped vary carefully or they WILL get damaged) makes it more complicated.

My first table in 1977 was an entry level Sony PST3. Performed adequately, but not superbly by comparison to other, more expensive equipment in its time. However, I would compare its performance to just about any modern offering under $1K and would not hesitate to buy one in good working order for a couple hundred dollars (more than the MSRP in 1976).

I was recently given a very nice fully auto Hitachi turntable from about 1980. In its day, it wasn't anything super special, just a solid, DD, quartz lock table with a decent, not great, tonearm. Since it is pristine, the seller could have asked a fair amount. I would buy the Hitachi instead of any modern table I've seen for under $1k. By contrast, a higher end table from the same era in poor working order might fetch a price for parts or repair. However, it will likely be disappointing. A broken table won't sound good

When you find a vintage table for sale, do some research about it to insure it wasn't an absolute dog in its day. I believe any respectable table from the 70's and early 80's in good working order will likely provide adequate performance for a reasonable cost by today's standards. Makers like JVC, Technics, Pioneer, Sony, Kenwood, Dual, MicroSeiki, etc. come to mind. Japan was known for selling respectable, durable, mid level tables in that era that when in good working order, out perform a lot of entry level tables of today. Belt or DD is less important in this type of purchase than condition. Both belt and DD turntables can perform adequately, irrespective of the arguments about pros and cons of each.

In another example, I was able to score an absolutely pristine Kenwood KD550 for $100 (with Ortofon cartridge). The seller knew what they had, so I didn't cheat them, they wanted it to go to a good local home without problem of shipping damage. My local market is really limited in both supply and demand for used tables. I believe most would say I got a really good deal that could have cost me 6-8 times that had I "gone shopping" online or lived in a more populated area.

On the other hand, I have seen 1976 era BSR Mcdonald record "grinders" at thrift shops run by uninformed staff who think any turntable is valuable with an asking price of $100. I wouldn't touch those with a 10 foot pole in a give away even if in good working condition (unlikely) as I value my records and my sound reproduction.

Availability, condition, market and asking price all factor into vintage tables. There is no easy answer to "best for $XXX.

One last factor, a locally available vintage table that can be personally tested and brought home in the back seat is more desirable than an online, unknown condition table that needs to be shipped by people who don't know how to pack them...it WILL be damaged, likely beyond all repair.

IMHO...