Do you run a sub in your 2 channel system?

[JimPA]

I probably should have been a little more specific, I can see a speaker having 20hz response, but the real question is, at what SPL can it do it, and what is it at the seating position. In my case, my 3 subs are less about, but still are to a degree, getting lower bass, and more about smooth bass response at the seating position along with the rest of the room.

I have never tried to find out the max spl of my subs.

Using a 25hz warble tone on a test cd when measuring at 1 meter with my spl meter my drivers were near maximum xmas at a little over 100db.
The cones were moving about 8-10mm each direction. The 20 and 25 hz warble tones sound very ominous. :worried:.
I didn't want to deform the voice coils by bottoming them out .

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I always run my mains wide open, no high pass, and just use the low pass on the subs, typically around 100hz or whatever works for the situation. I also adjust phase and amplitude until I have what I want out of the subs.

So, it's not a problem trying to run a sub/subs with a speaker system where the low-frequency drivers are being run full-range? I honestly don't know.

My mains obviously can't do a flat 20hz-20khz, but I really don't miss it. My hearing is still good, despite being a musician, so I can certainly hear frequencies down below 30hz without a problem, but with the kind of music I listen to on a regular basis (classic-rock/pop, funk, soul, blues, jazz/jazz-fusion), it's just not an issue. When I listen, I don't feel like there's anything missing. I likes ma' bass (No self-respecting funk fan doesn't), so bass-response is certainly important to me, but I haven't felt bass-deprived over the last 10 months or so. Still open for suggestions though. Just haven't been thinking about it much these days. Just been listenin' and enjoyin'.

 

[JoeESP9]

I was mainly speaking to the point of them being a tube-era speaker with a very-different sound, something made WELL-before subwoofers became a thing in home hi-fi. The "alnico" part was only to illustrate that point... At this point, for me, it's more-about the era and general designer-approach than it is about the materials used... as far as sounding different or not sounding different.

My two 12" woofers in each of my current mains are being run in full-range. No caps used on them. And this seems to be part of their charm (The early W90 version I have, that is... The later ones had the frequencies split between them, one for upper-bass and the other for lower, but not mine). So I have to wonder how well a sub is going to integrate with that. I'm not disagreeing. I'm simply wondering if this will be an issue, and if so, what does one use that will work best in that situation.

That doesn't have the anything to do with the improvement a sub woofer or two will provide. A properly integrated sub (two is better) will enhance all but the most ambitious speakers.

The first time I heard a sub woofer set up right was in the early 80s. I had a pair of Magnepan MG-3a's that were ideally positioned in a fairly decent room. I was quite happy with the sound and thought I was getting very good bass. I then had a chance to hear a Levinson HQD system. Easily hearing the 32Hz organ pedal tone in Thus Spake Zarathustra and the tremendous low end in Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor were real ear openers. More ordinary music that I was very familiar with also sounded quite different. The addition of a true low end really opened up the soundstage. The bass from my Maggies that I thought was so good paled in comparison.

A couple of years later when I heard the Apogee Grand and Infinity IRS-V systems I was even more impressed. Both of them had better bass than the HQD system with the Infinity having bass so good it could be spooky real. Since then I've heard other "high zoot" systems with superb low bass response and I've always been equally impressed. Those auditions prompted me to build the two TL sub woofers I use with my front speakers.

I suspect that many who downplay what subs can do have never heard a couple of good subs properly integrated with the mains. You should actually give a listen to them either as stand alone subs (properly integrated) or as part of a system like the big Pipe Dreams or Genesis 1.2. You may revise your thinking.

 

[BrocLuno]

No - Infinities

 

[moejr]

Short answer is no. I got Klipsch RF-7's with 2 10" woofers in each cabinet. Low bass is not a problem.

 

[AnalogDigit]

I used to run a sub with my smaller speakers. Now since I got larger speakers, I really did not need the sub that much so I sold it.

 

[tonyk]

I don't with my 4313's, but I'm lucky to be able to have them out in the room about four feet.

It really charges the room with sound nicely.

 

[derekva]

Yes. See the .sig.

-D

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I don't with my 4313's, but I'm lucky to be able to have them out in the room about four feet.

It really charges the room with sound nicely.

Yeah, I have my W90's about 3ft out into the room, and I love the sound. I've considered moving them back a foot just to put a little more space between me and the speakers (They're about 8ft away from me), but I wonder how they'll react to being closer to the wall. Might be better where they are. Moving them is not easy though, since they're on stands (concrete blocks and veneered 12"x36" wooden boards). Kind of a two-person job.

 

[dc270]

Have you tried your speakers with a sub? I'm more interested in what a sub can do for big full range speakers than what they will do for bookshelf speakers. I suspect the improvement in many cases would not be slight.

cubdog

I had a set of EV Interface CII's that I ran with subs- the 10" woofers they had were better augmented by the other 15" sub woofers. The two 16" that I have now are plenty for my bass efforts!
DC

 

[Mystery]

I don't need sub with Polks (CRS+ and 2B) but when I switch to bookshelves like MA301, I turn on the sub.
Polk 2B's have frequency response to 15Hz in the paper but I guess it can go down to around 30. :scratch2:

 

[frankxbe]

Well, 'need' is perhaps overstating the case... And I think many folks aren't saying that they feel their speakers get into subwoofer frequencies, just that they don't miss those frequencies. I mean, if string trios are someone's thing and they have speakers that get solidly to 40 Hz then a sub wound literally make less than a 1% difference and might even price distracting.

On the other hand, I've turned a number of classical and jazz listeners onto subs... A lot if folks tgat previously thought subs were only for movie-watchers, rockers and fans of rap.

Cant miss something you've never heard..... like a good sub woofer set in correctly enhancing the music altogether .

 

[cubdog]

A properly integrated sub (two is better) will enhance all but the most ambitious speakers.

This is what I believe the more systems I hear with properly integrated subs. The point that many can't seem to wrap their heads around is that increased and louder bass are the least things a sub should do for a 2 channel system. I'm not a bass freak at all. The way I currently have my sub set up most would not even realize that it is in use. But, take it away and the benefits become obvious.

cubdog

 

[dnewma04]

I will always use subs because I don't have a listening room the size of an auditorium. Until I do, subwoofers will always improve the performance of every speaker including IRS Vs and the like.

 

[elcoholic]

This thread got me thinking about a Dahlquist LP-1 electronic crossover so I was checking prices last night. Not very encouraging. Then today I have an epiphany and the rear panel of my Emotiva USP-1 flashes in my mind:

Then another OMG moment arrives when I realize I have a Sony TA-N55ES driving some Infinity Bookshelves in the garage. That's 300W of bridged mono muscle to effortlessly drive my DQ-1W sub. All I need is some more speaker wire!

 

[89grand]

This is what I believe the more systems I hear with properly integrated subs. The point that many can't seem to wrap their heads around is that increased and louder bass are the least things a sub should do for a 2 channel system. I'm not a bass freak at all. The way I currently have my sub set up most would not even realize that it is in use. But, take it away and the benefits become obvious.

cubdog

It seems many base the benefit of subwoofers on how big the woofers are in their speakers, or how good they think their mains are, and it it really makes no difference at all.

I use subs (plural) with every speaker I have, and will do so with any speakers I ever get in the future.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I will always use subs because I don't have a listening room the size of an auditorium. Until I do, subwoofers will always improve the performance of every speaker including IRS Vs and the like.

Wow, I would have thought it would be the other way around (Not disagreeing... Simply saying I never thought of it that way before). Part of the reason (but certainly not the only reason) why I've avoided subs is because of the size of the room. I have pretty-close neighbors, and I don't need their kid getting any crazy ideas about putting one of those in his bedroom.

 

[frankxbe]

It seems many base the benefit of subwoofers on how big the woofers are in their speakers, or how good they think their mains are, and it it really makes no difference at all.

I use subs (plural) with every speaker I have, and will do so with any speakers I ever get in the future.

I'm a believer I even use a sub with the EV sentry III's that have their own 15" woofers it makes a difference . It's funny when I play the EVIII's with the sub
most think the EVIII's are doing the low bass and if turn it off they are
surprised at the difference.

Heard my first sub with small bookshelves at Resistance Repair in Berkeley Cal in ~1980 that was the place to go if you wanted some JBL Alnico's to purchase or service or buy or service high end gear . If you knew about R/R you were cognoscenti or like me wanted to be , none of the mainstream dealers at least were selling setups like that then. It was hard to wrap my head around that at the time but as time passed almost 15 yrs it became more common especially with HT .

 

[kb9qkc]

for me its not that it might not make a diffrence. but to get subs that i would consider to intergrat into my mains, would be costly specialy if i were to do it with more then one. going with cheap subs just wouldnt be good for such speaker's, i dont belive i could make a diffrence with the low budget i have right now. i am very happy with the freq range i am hearing, so to me its not worth it for the cost between gain. ive tryd a cheaper sub and ya it didnt work to well, my mains were doing better then the crappy sub lol.

 

[frankxbe]

So, it's not a problem trying to run a sub/subs with a speaker system where the low-frequency drivers are being run full-range? I honestly don't know.

My mains obviously can't do a flat 20hz-20khz, but I really don't miss it. My hearing is still good, despite being a musician, so I can certainly hear frequencies down below 30hz without a problem, but with the kind of music I listen to on a regular basis (classic-rock/pop, funk, soul, blues, jazz/jazz-fusion), it's just not an issue. When I listen, I don't feel like there's anything missing. I likes ma' bass (No self-respecting funk fan doesn't), so bass-response is certainly important to me, but I haven't felt bass-deprived over the last 10 months or so. Still open for suggestions though. Just haven't been thinking about it much these days. Just been listenin' and enjoyin'.

Even well designed 10"powered sub or even two if placed correctly will make a nice difference with your W90's .
Trust me They make a difference with EVsentry III's so I don't have any problem with believing they will enhance the W90's there is bass and there is bass . The music a well designed sub plays from it's upper cut off and
down to or below ~40hz is very beneficial. like many have said you don't want to "hear" the sub" you wan't to integrate it.

I used to have w70' a long time ago enjoyed them for many years easy to drive nice warm smooth speaker .