Electric vehicle owners, let's talk.

[rajoo]

Got two factors that I think have not been addressed?

The first is that of possible danger in case of collisions/accidents. Is there potential of dangerous fire starts/fumes, etc. resulting from these events?

Secondly, what about the availability of the lithium? Is this not a rather rare resource that is only found in some parts of the world?


Good discussions to date, without the "eco card" being played.

Q

There is abundant lithium supply in the US primarily in Nevada, though just one operating mine there.
As to accidents, I would be more worried getting hit by a Tesla, especially head on. With a low center of mass from the battery compartment which is the entire floor board, it can act like a shear in collisions.

 

[rhodus]

Taking a y in the road alert...

What are your thoughts or what have you heard on the SC325 Tesla panels I am thinking of? Assuming not bad since you didn’t slam them in a response before.

I'm impressed by the fact that they appear to be American Made. That's a big plus to me. I haven't seen them in service yet, but I hear good things about Tesla quality in general. I know a few people who own the cars, just not well enough to do my own testing. It's coming though...

 

[NeilBEN]

I do not want to get into the debate over the environment etc. but rather the practicality and cost of driving one.

Just for sake of comparison, assume gas is $2.50/gal and you get 30mpg on your gas powered vehicle. That is 8.3 cents per mile. Add in an oil change every 5000 or so and that adds about another penny per mile. Let's call it 9 cents per mile to drive.

How do they compare cost wise to drive, availability and convenience of charging stations, time to charge at home or on the road, power and acceleration, etc? Are you happy? Would you want as an only vehicle? Would you buy again?

My immediate family has had 5 electric cars since 2014, and my extended family has had 13 electric cars since 2011.

Even with expensive electricity, that we have here in Massachusetts (we pay about 21¢/kWh all the time), they cost about 4¢/mile or less. There is essentially NO regular maintenance costs - tires and wiper blades and washer fluid. And maybe the cabin air filter.

We also have a solar panel array on our roof, so we pay even less - in the summer we drive for *free* - because we get a credit for our solar production, and we pay nothing for our electric bill. The panels will pay for themselves in less than 10 years, not counting incentives and rebates. With those, it will be about 6 years.

Driving an electric car is wonderful - full torque is available all the time, and this is amazing. Totally predictable, and totally dependable - no lag, and no hesitation.

We have a single 240V charging station here at home, and we share that between 3 cars. We have only ever used public charging stations about 2-3 dozen times in 6+ years with the 5 electric cars.

 

[mkane]

I'm thinking most electric vehicle owners don't care about full torque available all the time. Little old ladies driving Teslas. That's what we see around here, old folks driving EV's. Sometimes I wonder if thinking forward, thinking clean air for future generations is ?????????????. Don't see many youngsters driving EV's. We do live in a cow own but transplants are trying to change that.

No maintenances' required sounds great and our neighbors would benefit seeing as they have run 2 vehicles dry of all lubricants and had the internal combustion engines expire.

 

[hjames]

Do you, or any of the other folks here have a Tesla Wall or similar home battery unit?
I gather they store juice during sunshine and output in off-hours.

Having owned a Model 3 for about three years, without solar generation it does not make sense to own an EV. We already had solar power.

As to EV's vs. Hybrid (and I have owned both), I will take an EV over Hybrid any day since the EV's require zero maintenance except tires and windshield wipers. A hybrid is still ICE powered any way you cut it, but I do agree that a hybrid is far more economical than an EV if one were to calculate a gross cost per mile. But with a hybrid, one can travel long distances whereas with an EV, one has to stop and charge every 250 to 300 miles on average and it takes perhaps 30-40 minutes at a Tesla supercharger station, which I have no experience with other than emergency stops. Also long distance driving with an EV can be nerve wracking due to range anxiety which is real especially in remote areas.

 

[YY1]

No maintenance is not really true.

My 2015 jeep renegade has had "no maintenance" costs other than gas and oil.

Eventually both that car and our son's Tesla will need things like struts, steering bushings, etc not to mention the Tesla could end up with repairs that are more in line with a laptop computer than a car.

.....if they keep it long enough.

 

[whoaru99]

For "fuel" cost it appears the typical case is about 30kWh/100 miles from what I read. It's unclear to me if that's battery kWh or charged kWh. I suspect battery but not sure. Take it at face value for now.

Average electric rate in US is ~$0.14/kWh, it would cost you $4.20 of "fuel" to drive 100 miles if you can charge at that rate. Or, ~$0.042/mile.

Average gas price is $2.66/gal. There are cars that claim combined 36mpg or a bit more. Gonna cost ya about $7 in fuel to go 100 miles in one of those if you pay average for gas. Or, $0.07/mi.

Of course, local costs are more important to any given person than National averages.

 

[YY1]

Anyone know what the cost is at a charging station?

 

[NeilBEN]

I'm thinking most electric vehicle owners don't care about full torque available all the time. Little old ladies driving Teslas. That's what we see around here, old folks driving EV's. Sometimes I wonder if thinking forward, thinking clean air for future generations is ?????????????. Don't see many youngsters driving EV's. We do live in a cow own but transplants are trying to change that.

No maintenances' required sounds great and our neighbors would benefit seeing as they have run 2 vehicles dry of all lubricants and had the internal combustion engines expire.

I am not talking about using full acceleration all the time - I am talking about how responsive the accelerator pedal is. It increases AND decreases with utter predictability. No shifting, and smooth and quiet.

 

[YY1]

I'll add that my Renegade does get 34.5 MPG average.
(this week it's 36.5)

I have a 22.5 mile one way commute to work on a combination of 45 MPH long windy back roads and 60 MPH start and stop 4 lane city/suburban highways.

1.4 litre turbo manual 6 speed.

...and it's plenty big and roomy for me at 6'3".

Plus I like to carry and haul stuff.

It's also surprisingly fun to drive.

The power to weight ratio is very favorable and the engine has a wide torque band.

 

[rajoo]

Do you, or any of the other folks here have a Tesla Wall or similar home battery unit?
I gather they store juice during sunshine and output in off-hours.

I looked into this, but the entry cost is well over $10K and will only power lights and fridge/freezer in case of long term power outage. We fortunately are in the same power grid as the local fire station and our power seldom ever goes out. Our company electrician installs solar panels as a side business and I even looked into buying salvage Tesla battery packs but then abandoned the idea, since it cannot be connected to the PG&E service without permits.

 

[mkane]

I am not talking about using full acceleration all the time - I am talking about how responsive the accelerator pedal is. It increases AND decreases with utter predictability. No shifting, and smooth and quiet.

That could be a bad thing for someone that drives without finesse..

 

[NeilBEN]

No maintenance is not really true.

My 2015 jeep renegade has had "no maintenance" costs other than gas and oil.

Eventually both that car and our son's Tesla will need things like struts, steering bushings, etc not to mention the Tesla could end up with repairs that are more in line with a laptop computer than a car.

.....if they keep it long enough.

I said no regular maintenance - no oil changes, and no tune ups. The 5K mile oil changes, and the 15K tuneups, and the longer term major tuneups with higher costs - are not required.

Also, no cooling system, exhaust, fuel filters, etc. Even the brakes will need FAR less maintenance, because electric cars use regenerative braking most of the time. Brake pads and shoes will last 10X longer, if driven normally.

 

[NeilBEN]

Anyone know what the cost is at a charging station?

They are about $300-700, depending on amperage and features, plus installation. But sometimes they are provided as part of the purchase or lease. Sometimes the unit is free, and you pay only for installation.

 

[mkane]

Must be different than a Tesla charging station.

 

[NeilBEN]

That could be a bad thing for someone that drives without finesse..

It would help that sort of person the most, I think?

I hope everybody on this thread gets a chance to drive an electric car - any electric car. You can't appreciate how nice it is to drive one, unless and until you do.

 

[HTHMAN]

Anyone know what the cost is at a charging station?

I read an article a while back-I think it was Consumer reports. Owners can correct or expand, but it was something like this.. The charging stations charge by the minute.. Electric cars charge fast when they are low and slow down as they near full charge.. They recommend not charging more then (60% ??) at the station because "topping off" is expensive.

 

[rajoo]

Must be different than a Tesla charging station.

What I have at home and work is a 240 VAC single phase outlet (208 VAC at work) such as commonly found in kitchens and laundry rooms, but rated for a 50A breaker (240VAC) and my Model 3 draws a steady 32 amps (internally regulated maximum). I am not sure there is another way to charge as higher amperage or direct DC as a DIY.

 

[mkane]

It would help that sort of person the most, I think?

I hope everybody on this thread gets a chance to drive an electric car - any electric car. You can't appreciate how nice it is to drive one, unless and until you do.

Don't think so. Foot to the floor every time they touch the pedal. A 36hp VW would be more appropriate.

 

[hjames]

What I have at home and work is a 240 VAC single phase outlet (208 VAC at work) such as commonly found in kitchens and laundry rooms, but rated for a 50A breaker (240VAC) and my Model 3 draws a steady 32 amps (internally regulated maximum). I am not sure there is another way to charge as higher amperage or direct DC as a DIY.

So - its just your basic outlet on the wall, but rated high current.
The deal is the connecting cord? And that you carry around in the car.

And fwiw, my 2012 Fit 5sp gets 34-39 mpg in regular driving - tho much less lately
since its just a short drive into town any more, and no real commuter driving in the last year.
For us we'd be replacing it with a hybrid, since its a 250 mile round trip to Richmond or Harrisonburg to visit family and such.

Don't think so. Foot to the floor every time they touch the pedal. A 36hp VW would be more appropriate.

Yeah, that's not typical of anyone I know or see on the road ...
even my brother who was an amateur drag racer for many years drove sensibly off the track.