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Electrolytic Capacitor Shoot-Out

Wow, this thread is over 10 years old and still living.
During that time I still receive questions and messages about caps.

Here is the most common question:

I just recapped my 2230/2245/2270 Preamp (tone board P400) and now the high end is harsh, I want that original smooth Marantz sound!

So there are some areas where caps/films can change the tone of the circuit.

It can still sound smooth despite the claim some would make that it sounds smooth because the caps are old.
The culprit is usually too many film subs on the board.

Pat
 
I've recapped all my amps and tbh I really don't like film caps. I will always try to use UKL to replace an old LL orange cap, and a high quality electrolytic for a non LL cap.

This weekend I recapped a 1090 I found at the dump. The previous owner had recapped it with a multitude on Nichicon audio grade caps, half I suspected to be fakes. I recapped it with a mix of UKL, UFG and panasonic FC & FM, but kept the blue Nichicon KA in the main ampboard that had been used to replace the orange LL caps. The resulting sound was too harsh, too detailed. Swapping to UKL really tidied up the harshness, although the amp is bright.

Of course UKL are getting hard to get. My question: if the amp is equipped with orange LL caps in the signal path, especially the ones that are sealed by epoxy, wouldn't it be better just to leave them in ? I never found a bad one
 
There was no orange caps left in this amp by the previous guy, but reading some restoration threads and looking at the SM, I know where they were. He had put KA's in their place.

I am on a trip at the moment, but will post pictures of orange caps which are epoxy (?) sealed. They are all low values ones, mainly from Sansui vintage amps
 
patfont said:
I am an avid fisherman and on the East Coast here it is Striper season, so have been busy. Hunting for a 2270, to work on come the new year.
Click to expand...
I have read this entire thread and I'm so disappointed that no one else accidentally read this as "stripper" season :rflmao:. Ah well, thanks for all the info @patfont ! You have convinced me to buy the Kimber cable and the Mundorf main filter caps for my Marantz 1250 recap.

​

 
Hello Everybody,

I just read through all 47 pages of this thread with great interest. The study of the Elna Silmic II and Nichicon audio-grade capacitors is fantastic.
I'm currently restoring a Marants 1060, and many Silmic RFS capacitors are present on the various boards. I have a question regarding the P400 board.
I've attached a photo of this board; I would have liked a bit more detail and to emphasize the treble.
Do you think that if I replace the 403/404 (1µF) or/and 405/406 (10µF) capacitors with Nichicon Fine Gold capacitors, I could get a slightly different sound? These are the only two values I have on hand.
I hope this thread is still being read so that someone can give me an answer. Thank you so much.
 

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I would finish the rest of the rebuild before deciding on the sonics of the preamp board.
Replace the coupling and power caps.
Was the power supply done?

Pat
 
Merci beaucoup, Patfont, pour vos commentaires.

Je comprends parfaitement vos suggestions.
À ce jour, je n'ai restauré que la carte de préamplification, la carte phono et la carte d'alimentation.

J'ai passé une nouvelle commande pour remplacer tous les condensateurs de la carte d'alimentation, qui sont des Nichicon PW, par des condensateurs Elna Silmic II RFS, comme vous me l'aviez recommandé.
J'ai aussi des appareils photo Panasonic FC, mais après avoir lu vos critiques, j'ai décidé d'essayer les Silmic.
Je ne l'ai pas fait immédiatement car, depuis l'annonce par Elna de l'arrêt de la production de Silmic II, les prix en Europe ont explosé.
Par exemple, le condensateur 470uF/63 coûte actuellement plus de 14 €.
J'ai également commandé deux filtres Mundorf Mlytic de 3300 uF pour remplacer les deux anciens filtres gris Elna.
Leur valeur était encore bonne, mais j'ai des doutes sur leurs performances après 45 ans d'utilisation.
et 2 condensateurs Mundorf Evo Oil de 0,22 µF pour la carte de pré-programmation ; la seule chose que je n’ose pas encore faire, c’est la carte d’amplification ; j’ai peur de la démonter.
Au revoir
 

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ok, got it.

Until you replace the 3 large caps you are not going to hear the full extent of the work you did.
Did you replace the coupling and power cap?

Pat
 
thanks Patfont for your reply,
I'm eagerly awaiting the two 3300uF Mundorf Mlytic capacitors. As for the 4700uF, it's much harder to find. Mundorf doesn't offer it, so I might opt for a Nichicon KG Grade II or a CDE. There aren't many options in Europe with a voltage of 80V or 100V.
 
patfont said:
Nichicon KA's are on my do not use list IMHO they sound harsh.
Click to expand...
What's your opinion of Nichicon UKL in the audio path.
They are on my do not use list, sound is somewhat dull/sterile.
Apologies if you've covered this elsewhere in the 47 pages...
 
I've rebuilt a couple of my 1060's using the excellant threads on AK !

I think it' about managing expectations on improvements in sound when recapping. For sure it is better sounding after recapping, especally the large caps, but in many cases it's subtle, well in the case of my 62year old ears. I guess it depends on how deteriorated the old caps you are taking out are. I worked on amps where all caps are still more or less in spec, but then I just recapped a Kenwood KA4000 and all caps without exception were double or even triple their original capacitance ! No BS. Needless to say this amp sound much better after recapping !

On one of my 1060's I did a listening test before & after each board, so same everything & test track, and a really noticeable improvement I heard was changing out the 8ea small transistors on the P400 Tone board (2SA493/2SC1000) for the usual KSA992/KSC1845 pairing, all hFE matched. Quite a revelation really.

PS : the other thing that helps is playing it loud !
 
Mundorf Evo Oil 0.22uf .
I would like maybe change all 1uf capacitors (RFS & UES actually) C403 C404 C 414 C 415, Patfont you used Cerafine for C403/C404 ? what is the subtitude of RFS ? 1uf FG or 1uf UES ? C414/C415 :1uf Wima ?
thanks
 

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I still have good stock of many of the popular caps.
I really like Nichicon KW, if you can not find Silmic II.
There are also a couple distributers that still have Silmic II stock, and Nichicon FG.
 
patfont said:
I still have good stock of many of the popular caps.
I really like Nichicon KW, if you can not find Silmic II.
There are also a couple distributers that still have Silmic II stock, and Nichicon FG.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've been opting for KW when I can, but with size and values its a bit of a mine field. If it was for myself I'd drive to partsconnexion for some silmics but for a client if I'm restricted to digikey/mouser I'm trying to scope out some alternatives
 
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