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ESS AMT-3 replacement woofer candidates

automojo said:
Well so far-I'm not to impressed with these-lower Heil output, loss of dynamics-although the stereo image is seemingly widening slightly.
So far they kill the main advantages of the AMT3-dynamics-wide and airy stereo image.
On some vocals-piano they sound pretty good after 60+ hours or so. Rock music-eh...
I could be mistaken-but they seem to sound bad first time you turn them on-after 5 minutes or so-they sound better. Weird..
The first speaker sounded great in mono-when I was working on the other one.
Some mentioned on the cap thread..200 to 300 hours of breakin time.
I find this a bit hard to believe that they will change that much-especially the output.
Interesting experiment.will see.
But I have to say, listening to them now, is a bit of a drag.
That cap thread is weird-people stuck in their cap lore-there is some good info, but its too subjective IMHO.
But it's been a eye opening experiment so far-and confirms what a big difference-a oil cap, for example can have on a speaker crossover.
And also, how good the AMT3's can sound with average poly caps-and that your best sticking with these for the most part-unless will see-if you can wait 400 hours of break-in time!!!
What ever works-cap swapping would not be my hobby on a regular basis-that's for sure!!
Cheez...…..
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Automojo:
Caps don't solve all problems. They are used primarily for final voicing.
OIL caps tend to sound warm and soft and are used in horns, where they can tame the aggressive sound. In the old days, people use motor run caps with oil. Early Klipsch speakers used them They will not be good in a lay back system. I would not used them in ribbons which generally have a nice/non-aggressive sound. It could very well be for the AMT-3 standard PPT caps are best. That is good news because we will save lots of $$.
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Yep-I get it-and did get it in the beginning.
Frankly the main issue was the drop in db/output.
Never heard this description about the Evo's-checked connections-both speakers identical in db drop.
If it wasn't for that-I think the other 2 issues would have been fine-maybe even better. Hard to say.
It's hard to describe they other 2 keys issues when the other drivers are masking the Heil.
So to revise-at least with the EVO's they lower the Heil output more then it should be.
Yep I could have played with resistors, but as mentioned stock polys are more then adequate.
I got the idea from a old DIY post-on a 2 way AMT-he clamed oil caps increased the sound stage depth in a huge way-but never mentioned the db drop.
Thanks!
 
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But again-issues like this add to the database-at that was my point-you certainly can't broad brush cap/etc-anything for that matter!
 
What does the "Bright", "Normal", "Soft" switch settings do? Does one of those compensate for the Mundorf effect? If not, you could decrease resistance, to bring the Heil level back to stock.
 
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StimpyWan said:
What does the "Bright", "Normal", "Soft" switch setting do? Does one of those compensate for the Mundorf effect? If not, you could decrease resistance, to bring the Heil level back to stock.
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Yes I could have, but that's a bit more then I wanted to. It requires removing the p.c. board-and dealing with the small switch wires, etc.
No biggie-I'll go back to polys and should be good!
But again-something to note for the data base-a possible drop in db may be a issue.
At best-the switch varies by 1.5 db from extremes.
 
It's a shame the EVO Oils didn't work out for you. Maybe since I always use bypass caps, on all caps, I didn't notice any spacial or balance, and level issues?
 
StimpyWan said:
It's a shame the EVO Oils didn't work out for you. Maybe since I always use bypass caps, on all caps, I didn't notice any spacial or balance, and level issues?
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Hard to say if that would make a difference-on the surface I can't under stand how a small bypass would increase output.
My opinion on them is some say they work, other say they hear zero difference.
Some have shown measurable differences-but what that really means audible wise-hard to say.
Maybe circuit dependent-maybe pseudo dependent-
That's the issue with most of these cap guides etc-it shows a possible outcome-but that's about it.
Not any different-if you think about it-then my experience with the drop in db with the AMT3's
So unless you have a large enough database, covering more possible situations, control groups etc-those possible outcomes may be very different then what's stated.
And IMHO-that's good additional info-because there isn't enough accurate info regarding cap types, other then subjective descriptions, and opinions...
 
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As mentioned earlier-I think the spatial/balance issue may have to do with the drop in db.
If you don't have driver balance , and coherence-its hard really describe those.
I should have focused my main issue on that-then rambling about the others.
Because it was the number one issue.
Once that's fixed-then you can see if those other issues still remain.
Perhaps at some other time-I need good music at present!
But it's strange-never heard that issue with anyone else.
I find it hard to believe it's only Heil dependent.
If I would have know that ahead of time-I would have passed for now.
 
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Just stay away from ClarityCaps too. They would most likely cause an even bigger dB drop. Plus, they already have a dark signature, which would make level shifts sound even worse.
 
StimpyWan said:
Just stay away from ClarityCaps too. They would most likely cause an even bigger dB drop. Plus, they already have a dark signature, which would make level shifts sound even worse.
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Sure-that's good info!!
People really need to mention that-because it does add shift/space issue into the mix as well.
I have some 33uf Audyn's sitting around-those should be perfect.
I have some.47uf Dayton film/foils as well I bought years ago-could use as a bypass, but will probably stick with the one cap-leave well enough alone.
 
I've got a 22uF Audyn Q-4, to try in my AR-92 center speaker. I'm currently using a Mundorf E-Cap, but it just isn't doing it for me. Too opaque. Not clear and detailed enough. Trying the Audyn, just for fun. If it sounds good, great. If not, I'll probably go back to Mundorf poly, to match my mains.
 
Stimpy-I do appreciate your thoughtful recommends...even your angry buddie/strange cat Trapper/F1 had a few good points-when he refrains from threats...don't get that...everyone has a opinion, ways of doing things, whatever...if you cant deal with it, I get it to a point, but that stuff is a good way to get suspended/banned.
Personally I could care less...also consider the source..but these days ya might find the suede denim secret police-not coming for your un-cool niece-but you!!:rflmao:
Let alone trying to give someone information surrounded by personal insults...
I don't have a issue extracting info from it-but it's annoying to say the least...
I get it's its the flavor of the day...
But information, opinions should be a free flow, not controlled by some self appointed PIO, determining "what counts", and what doesn't..
 
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Is that egg crate foam stock? The reason I ask, I used it to line the side panel door, on a computer case, that I needed to be as silent as possible. While it did a good job, the foam didn't take long to deteriorate and crumble. So, keep an eye on it.
 
Nope
PE foam.. at some point I’m sure it will dry rot- however in the speaker environment being sealed up it should be good for 10 to 20 years
Then I use 4” of Auralex over the crossover and behind the woofers
The foams main function is to reduce reflections
The ceramic coating does a good job of further deadening the cabinet as well as reducing reflections
The main issues with the stock cabinet are the front and rear panels
Front panel has 2 braces between driver openings
The 4” foam works well keeping the sound waves off the rear panel
Bass is ultra detailed, clean and deep.
Excellent match for the Great Heil.
Nothing like sealed bass!!
 
StimpyWan said:
Is that egg crate foam stock? The reason I ask, I used it to line the side panel door, on a computer case, that I needed to be as silent as possible. While it did a good job, the foam didn't take long to deteriorate and crumble. So, keep an eye on it.
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I think the computer subjects the foam to quite a bit more heat than a loudspeaker will. I've had the same stuff in the Rock Monitors and a few other speakers, and it's still soft enough to cushion a few eggs.

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Porkloin said:
I think the computer subjects the foam to quite a bit more heat than a loudspeaker will. I've had the same stuff in the Rock Monitors and a few other speakers, and it's still soft enough to cushion a few eggs.

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Sure.
If it does happen to dry rot in the future-then remove it and install new-just like woofer surrounds-no biggie. I probably bought it 8 years ago, or so-still soft.
Probably not the stuff to line the walls of a nightclub@ The Station. Some of the newer stuff is fire resistant, or you can specify.
Or you could line the walls with 1/8" putty like the one members Infinities. The they would weigh 200lbs ea!!
Ah...…..nah....foam and braces work just fine!!
 
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