Great info--but I am very curious about my original question now that you've had a chance to use the Bryston xo. Are you using the Bryston for BOTH the low-pass and high-pass, and therefore not using ANY of the Fathom's filter and automated adjustment capabilities, or did you find that using the Bryston only for the high-pass and allowing the Fathom to manage the 70Hz-and-below signal sounded better? Did you try it both ways?
Fathom F112's in my system
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Great info--but I am very curious about my original question now that you've had a chance to use the Bryston xo. Are you using the Bryston for BOTH the low-pass and high-pass, and therefore not using ANY of the Fathom's filter and automated adjustment capabilities, or did you find that using the Bryston only for the high-pass and allowing the Fathom to manage the 70Hz-and-below signal sounded better? Did you try it both ways?
I am using both high and low pass on the Bryston to split the signal between the subs and the Memento's. The F112s are calibrated with the ARO (automatic room optimization) feature which sweeps the room from 20Hz to 200Hz and takes out the major peaks if there are any. I did not find any sonic benefits to overlap the subs with the speakers as the bass if very smooth on the speakers as it is so they are simply crossed over at 70Hz with 18dB slope. So essentially the subs are still optimized and I am using the "ARO" but only up to 70Hz. Crossing over higher or letting the subs overlap the speakers and run up to their full range didn't sound right to my ears.
Of course the results may be different with other speakers and rooms.
The Gotham is one serious beast. :yes: I don't blame you for being anxious to install it in your system.
I am using both high and low pass on the Bryston to split the signal between the subs and the Memento's. The F112s are calibrated with the ARO (automatic room optimization) feature which sweeps the room from 20Hz to 200Hz and takes out the major peaks if there are any. I did not find any sonic benefits to overlap the subs with the speakers as the bass if very smooth on the speakers as it is so they are simply crossed over at 70Hz with 18dB slope. So essentially the subs are still optimized and I am using the "ARO" but only up to 70Hz. Crossing over higher or letting the subs overlap the speakers and run up to their full range didn't sound right to my ears.
Could you explain this further? I thought that if you sent the Fathom a signal that was not full range, you would have to defeat its filter and ARO capabilities (slave mode), otherwise it would be trying to do a sweep and adjustments on a signal limited to 70Hz at the highest. Thanks!
No, you don't have to turn off the ARO mode. The sub calibrates itself, without any signal present. It generates the different frequency test signals, the mike feeds back the information and the sub adjusts itself to the room. I have them both setup as "masters" and they were both calibrated. Now when the subs see the signal up to 70Hz, if there were "bumps" in the room response between 20 and 70Hz, they are taken care of. The rest of the signal they don't see and I wouldn't want them to either, like I mentioned before, they integrate best with my speakers around 70Hz and everything sounds smooth and natural and measures pretty flat across the board too.
By the way, I turned the crossover points on the subs way up and "out of the way", the Bryston handles the actual crossover points so the sub's crossover doesn't come into play at all and does not introduce any more phase shifts at cross over points. Hope this makes sense. If anyone is interested in adding these subs to their system, PM me and I can walk you through the procedure and share my experience of setting them up over the phone.No, you don't have to turn off the ARO mode. The sub calibrates itself, without any signal present. It generates the different frequency test signals, the mike feeds back the information and the sub adjusts itself to the room. I have them both setup as "masters" and they were both calibrated. Now when the subs see the signal up to 70Hz, if there were "bumps" in the room response between 20 and 70Hz, they are taken care of. The rest of the signal they don't see and I wouldn't want them to either, like I mentioned before, they integrate best with my speakers around 70Hz and everything sounds smooth and natural and measures pretty flat across the board too.
Thanks! This now makes complete sense, and I appreciate the answers.
I have a little different situation, which prompted my original question. I am restoring a pair of Beveridge Model 2 SW electrostatic speakers (web site depicting the journey to follow!). They contain their own OTL tube amplifiers AND crossover boards which many say is key to their magic. The problem is, their 1970's subwoofers are terrible, so I think I may introduce the Fathom(s) into the system. I have bench tested the Beveridge xo boards and found them to crossover at 80Hz with a 12dB slope. So, since I need to use the internal xo boards to preserve the reputed magic, I've decided to NOT invest in an external crossover like the Bryston 10B. My plan is to instead use the high-pass filter section only of the internal board, then use the built-in low-pass filter of the Fathom(s), receiving a full-range signal from another set of outputs from my preamp and crossed over at 80dB with a 12dB slope. I can hardly wait to see if this will be successful since at 80Hz and above, the Beveridges are truly astonishing!
Don't see why it wouldn't work. If you say the Beverdiges are astonishing from 80Hz and up, I believe you and can assure you that 80Hz and down the JL subs are astounding as well. :yes:
LewinskiH01
Member
PHC1,
I was wondering if you ever got to try the 10B + F112s with your MC275. Not that I'm anxious to read you findings...sure I'm not!!:yes:
Looking forward to it:thmbsp:
Horacio
I was wondering if you ever got to try the 10B + F112s with your MC275. Not that I'm anxious to read you findings...sure I'm not!!:yes:
Looking forward to it:thmbsp:
Horacio
I am about to get another F113. What is the difference between using just one sub vs two F113's??
Is it just a slight improvement where you think "I should have just turned it up/adjusted a little more,(one sub)" or a feeling of "two subs are a balance, that was needed, I cant believe I waited this long" feelings/ thoughts?
Thanks
Is it just a slight improvement where you think "I should have just turned it up/adjusted a little more,(one sub)" or a feeling of "two subs are a balance, that was needed, I cant believe I waited this long" feelings/ thoughts?
Thanks
Excellent! Well, I will try to document my experiences with the Beveridges/Fathom setup as well as you have done once my restoration project is finished. Thanks for all the great information!
I will try it sometime next week and report back, been a little busy lately. :tears:
I was very impressed with the one sub. :yes: Adding a second F112 and depending on the recording, the results are jaw dropping. Try "Castilian Drums" by Dave Brubeck. The drums are fleshed out with such realism that it is spooky. The old "you are there" saying is an understatement, you can reach out and touch them! :jawdrop:
Too busy listening when I do have free time!Too busy for Music? Say it ain't so.
The active x/o and the dual F112s have elevated my listening to nothing short of a some kind of a religious experience or an "epiphany".
exracer
music speaks
Too busy listening when I do have free time!
Glad to hear it! :thmbsp:
Too busy listening when I do have free time!
That's what I'm talking about! :yes:
william.keith
Super Member
Any thoughts as to why two subs vs. one would yield such a stark difference in sound quality?
william.keith
Super Member
Since I am crossing over at 70Hz instead of 35Hz like I used to before the active x/o, recordings that have instruments hard left or hard right have a more "palpable" quality to them. Both subs are masters and have their dedicated channels, there is no summing of bass in my setup.
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