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FF/REW fix ctf-8282,9191,1000 RXA-581, NOT DIY

I just bought a CT-f 8282 from someone that had it in storage for many years. I have not even plugged it in yet. I know the pause button is bent, and the cabinet has a few issues. Your documentation will be very helpful when/if I decide to pursue this unit.

My dad had a mint CTF-9191 and he gave it to my non audiophile brother. I recently inquired about that beast, and was told that it stopped playing tapes, so my brother threw it in the trash. :sigh:
 
Mark, I have your problem. My centre-shaft is cracked on my CT-F1000, but I'm in the UK. Can you help me with a brass cylinder or is it just easier to glue the RNK-188 to RNK-189 taking all suitable precautions? Thanks.
 
I have internationally mailed parts (bias diodes, belgium), not that expensive.

The sleeve wouldn't survive, there's a risk when installing it (I end up doing a bit of filing on both to get them to fit each other) plus the cutting for cylinder clearance needs the specialized tools. It isn't a profit motive, I'd rather just have posted the procedure and been done with it. But after some soul searching, I concluded that the danger of inexperienced attempts destroying the clutch would approach the 50 - 50 point. Even with my extreme care, I have ended up supplying replacements to clutches I busted.
 
markthefixer said:
I have internationally mailed parts (bias diodes, belgium), not that expensive.

The sleeve wouldn't survive, there's a risk when installing it (I end up doing a bit of filing on both to get them to fit each other) plus the cutting for cylinder clearance needs the specialized tools. It isn't a profit motive, I'd rather just have posted the procedure and been done with it. But after some soul searching, I concluded that the danger of inexperienced attempts destroying the clutch would approach the 50 - 50 point. Even with my extreme care, I have ended up supplying replacements to clutches I busted.
Click to expand...
So basically you're saying: glue is the only option? Actually I don't think any parts need gluing to each other. A bit of superglue along the crack would do the trick, if the cylinder is compressed with a suitable adjustable wrench during the glue process. That would stop the cylinder opening up when the end-bit is inserted and give a tight fit.
 
gluing teflon to teflon?

well at least you can scrape the glue off after ward, and it won't interfere with the sleeve.

I'm not going to argue.

You can research ALL my posts on this and the attempts over the years, it's your clutch.

I have a hard enough time keeping up now...
 
markthefixer said:
gluing teflon to teflon?

well at least you can scrape the glue off after ward, and it won't interfere with the sleeve.

I'm not going to argue.

You can research ALL my posts on this and the attempts over the years, it's your clutch.

I have a hard enough time keeping up now...
Click to expand...
Success with glue.

Trying to glue the crack up however did not work. There was too much strain on the crack when the end-bit was inserted into the cylinder. Instead what I did was this. Outside of the cassette player, I assembled the five pieces in the clutch, namely FF-Idler-A, FF-Idler-B, Large spring, Spring Holder, Washer and RR-Idler Bearing. Just prior to inserting RR-Idler Bearing into the end of the FF-Idler-A cylinder with the crack in it, I put a blob of super glue insider the cylinder. I then compressed RR-Idler Bearing and FF-Idler-A cylinder whilst at the same time, turning continuously FF-Idler-B to ensure it did not jam with any excess glue from the cylinder.

After about ten minutes of this, I had a fully completed clutch assembly with FF-Idler-B turning as it should. I then used a 2mm drill to clear the inside of the shaft of the whole clutch assembly of excess glue spill. I then reinstalled the clutch back into the machine, using white grease.

When installing the clutch in the machine it is important to align the V of the metal clutch shaft with the pin of control arm of the FF/RW motor, otherwise nothing will work.

Incidentally, I also repaired the main rubber of the FF/RW motor drive bearing with two rubber tap washers that I sanded down to the correct diameter using a drill to rotate the washers against a piece of rough sandpaper.

After pressing FF there was some friction at first, and the reels turned slowly but after a few seconds, it all worked fine. First time this machine has worked properly in many years. :thmbsp:
 
mark,
My clutch does not have RBF-024 'plastic washer" and AFAIK this has never been apart. By looking at the exploded view I really do not see the significance of this washer anyway except to keep RNK-187 from becoming over extended thus limiting the travel up the shaft but the spring force obviously keeps it in place. Did any of the ones you repaired have this washer inside? Seems like it is not needed anyway.

Thanx,
Bud
 
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The drawing from Pioneer is badly done, wrong dimensions of the RBF-024 relative to the RNK-189 are portrayed.

That's the black "surface" of the underside of the RNK-189, sometimes it sticks and it looks like a coating on the plastic.

It's shown on the leftmost part of a post #2 picture. The "halos" picture...
upload_2022-1-17_16-42-5.png

edit: now here too...
upload_2022-1-17_16-28-43.png



upload_2022-1-17_16-33-22.png
The part that's cut is the RNK-189, and the sleeve is either 12 or 14 thousandth thick, and I'm not sure how thin it would need to be to clear the RNK-189 surface.
 
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Ahhhhhh....that makes sense! Now I see what they are referring to. That IS the thin black "washer" stuck on the underside of the cap. Man, their draftsmen SUCKED!
 
calman46 said:
What size brass tubing do you use ? OD" /ID"?
Click to expand...

Instead of using tubing I just hogged out a piece of 5/16" round stock. The finish dimensions came out to .1935" ID x .210" OD x .280" lg. I undercut the top of the sleeve once I pressed it on and chucked the idler back into the collet.
I spun the end down to .197" with a shoulder depth of .070" and broke the burrs with a fine ruby stone. I had to then chuck RNK-187 up and bore it out to clear the .210" OD of the new shaft. I gave it .002" clearance.

Bud
 
0.0035 thickness on that 0.070 shoulder... :yikes:

Definitely have to do it when in place.

RNK-187 I kept the original clearance when I chose the drill bit I purchased, so my bored hole is a bit larger, b ut I don't remember what size bit I got, and can't dig it out to check right now.
 
markthefixer said:
0.0035 thickness on that 0.070 shoulder... :yikes:

Definitely have to do it when in place.

RNK-187 I kept the original clearance when I chose the drill bit I purchased, so my bored hole is a bit larger, b ut I don't remember what size bit I got, and can't dig it out to check right now.
Click to expand...

Yep...it's paper-thin. But, when I chuck it up and get the TIR down, in the case of this part I had .0005" runout, it is no prob. I cut micro parts on a daily basis and .0035" seems like the Alps in comparison to the stuff I am used to doing!
 
Just a note, as far as gluing is concerned, yes the glue will close the crack - but that is weakened material and not just where the crack occurred, the tension will soon cause another section to crack.

The sleeve transforms the function of the nylon, from a tension material to a filler material - and the filler transfers the tension to the sleeve, which will far better withstand it.
 
Hello Mark , My CT F 1000 new rubber new caps ,no FF/REW.(motors working) The clutch stem you sleeved is good on mine but there is a crack in the wheel with the felt on it. I can see the crack it is on part wheel where felt is glued . Do you think this crack is causing the problem . I think gluing would be my only option . thanks
 
Help, I need one of these sleeves :)

Any help appreciated! I have a CT-F9191 that I just recently replaced the belts on but it still has the issue of no FF or REW. Thanks!
 
I'm working on 9191 with a cracked clutch now.I made a collar for the clutch out of 7/32 O.D. brass tubing. Spin it in my dril press and put a jewlers file on one end until fit inside the cap. I then used a length of the 7 /32 brass in the drill press and spun it on and off the cracked clutch. Then I cut the collar to 1/4" length with a tubing cutting. FF is good RW a little sluggish at end. This deck had the stretched springs fix done to it before I got it. That is both internal clutch springs and one on the clutch arm . Is there a thread on cutting the reel table springs to releave some of the torque? I remember reading read some like that but can't fiind it.
 
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First I want to apologize that I bring up the same question in two threads(http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120458&page=2). But I would like a second opinion since I am still uncertain whether I have a clutch problem or not on my ct-f1000.

If I compare my clutch with the picture Mark has uploaded showing one bad clutch and one fixed clutch my seems to be exact as the fixed one. That is, the wheel closest to the bracket does not bind to the bracket, actually the only way to make the wheel touch the bracket is to push the wheel against the bracket to overcome the spring load. If the force is removed the wheel moves away from the bracket. Does this mean that the clutch at least floats on to the axle as it should?

Question number two is weather the clutch assembly should free spin around the axle? I need to add some force in order to make it rotate and it stops as soon as the force is removed.

Have I just not fully understand how the clutch works and all symptoms are indicating a crack in the tap?I appreciate any attempts to clear my uncertainty!

Thanks!
 
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The slightest touch from the side of your little finger should be enough to rotate the clutch on the shaft.
It won't truly freewheel due to that up and down spring at/in the base of the clutch.
I fixed that in the old post, which was done before the fix was developed, and the freewheeling part was a bit optimistic.

That spring load is also very tiny. IF you need to grasp the clutch with two fingers to get it to turn on the main shaft, it is binding.
If you have to push hard with the finger (almost to the level of the two fingered grip turn) to get it to turn, it's probably binding.

There are early failure modes where pushing the clutch pack together relieves the symptoms for a while, until the parts slip again. Part of my initial frustration. Time frames of weeks at first, then shorter.

The material WILL crack. Period. If for some reason I get an uncracked clutch to repair - I sleeve it anyway. That's part of the deal. And so far, IIRC no UNCRACKED clutches have come in here.

Details etc by PM.
 
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