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Franken VAL's

After dinking around a little bit I can't see anything wrong, maybe a questionable solder joint. Going to rebuild it EXACTLY as Zilch has it laid out (after I measure all the components.)
I wasn't real happy with my slapped together temporary crossover anyway - especially considering it doesn't work!
Steve
 
Zilch, how does this "4430 Lite" crossover compare to the Z19, on PT-type waveguides?

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Z19 dials them flatter, as I recall, but I'll know more when Steve brings his over for measurements tomorrow. It's been several years since I worked with these.

As you know, BMS 4555 on that waveguide is killer good with Z19. I may have run that combo with 2235H, but chances are, it was LE14H-3 in inverted L55 cabs or Citation 7.4 by that point in time.

This crossover is optimized for 2235H at 1 kHz, also, and thus preferred when using that woofer. Z19 is 1.2 kHz....
 
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Took everything apart and measure the parts - everything looks good. I thought I had a meter that could measure caps but I can't seem to find it. I may be thinking of one I used at work 5 years ago.
Looks like the apprentice has messed up and needs to be more careful on the next build.
So this Z-19 might be even better? Sounds like I may be building more HF sections in the future.
Steve
 
Z19's highpass would have to be shifted down to 1 kHz in a manner that blended with the 4430 lowpass. Both use very nearly the same core inductor in the lowpass, and Z19 could be easily converted for that part. Not terribly difficult, but the combo would have to be verifed via measurements; I don't believe we have any data on 2452H-SL/PT-F95HF directivity down in that region. It'll PLAY down there, sure, but the rest of it, well, "indeterminate...." :dunno:
 
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One more thing before we leave to go see Santa before the downpour starts in the south bay. What value is the HF L-pad? 8 or 16 Ohms.
Steve
 
I noticed last night that layout drawing says "0.6" on the small inductor. I think everybody got it right as a 0.1 mH 20 Ga Jantzen with 16 turns removed to yield the factory spec 0.04 mH.

Looks like 4343 used an 18 Ga 0.05 mH and maybe unwound that to 0.04 mH. If so, we're all on the same path with that one here.... :thmbsp:
 
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I forgot to mention this but this morning (while the wife was out) I ran just the woofer to see what the bass was like. Even with the cabinet back only held on by 2 screws and leaking like hell the 2235 'engaged' my room big time. My wife's china inherited cabinet needs to move as it rattles like crazy at very low volume. At a little higher the whole room seemed to enter resonance for a few seconds (at maybe 10 watts.) The speaker cabinet itself is literally 'breathing' by maybe 1/16" and simply must be braced to use a woofer of this power. Zilch will get a kick out of measuring this setup.
Steve
 
Kinda wish you hadn't dismantled your first build; would have been fun to troubleshoot that one.

[There's still hope. :tongue: ]

Regarding mine, I looked, but did not find. They are either built into something, in a "secret" place, or on loan.

Found other cool stuff that it took me a while to figure out, tho:

1) An 800 Hz 16-Ohm 2426J version, and

2) A full-blown (huge) charge-coupled version.

3) NL200T3 "Lite" in both 8- and 16-Ohm variants.

All that's in Q&D somewhere, probably.

[No shame; it was what I was doing back in them olden dayz.... ;) ]
 
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Zilch said:
Looks like 4343 used an 18 Ga 0.05 mH and maybe unwound that to 0.04 mH. If so, we're all on the same path with that one here.... :thmbsup:
Click to expand...

Yep, 0.04 here.
I could swear that there was a parts list posted at one point, but couldn't find it this A.M., nor a diagram. (Gone now? Or emailed?)
 
eMailed, probably. Never published it, but sent it upon inquiry, as I recall. There was a hint to using an L-pad for the HF in the thread.... :)
 
Hey now.

Like I said - I wasn't real happy with the first version anyway. I want the 'Guru' to be happy. Besides it gives me an excuse to spend some quality time in my man cave this cold evening. Might even consume some adult beverages so your troubleshooting wish may still come true.
Steve

Zilch said:
Kinda wish you hadn't dismantled your first build; would have been fun to troubleshoot that one.

[There's still hope. :tongue: ]

Regarding mine, I looked, but did not find. They are either built into something, in a "secret" place, or on loan.

Found other cool stuff that it took me a while to figure out, tho:

1) An 800 Hz 16-Ohm 2426J version, and

2) A full-blown (huge) charge-coupled version.

3) NL200T3 "Lite" in both 8- and 16-Ohm variants.

All that's in Q&D somewhere, probably.

[No shame; it was what I was doing back in them olden dayz.... ;) ]
Click to expand...
 
Zilch might notice this!!

Look familiar? A few more wires and I should have a decent speaker. I will let you know in a 30 minutes - I am not staying awake until 4 AM again wondering what the hell I F'ed up.
Steve
 

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If Duff hadn't built a working pair from that diagram, I'd be thinking there's an error in it, but too many of us have also traced it now for that to be the case.

If it doesn't work, don't get all bent; you're merely hours from watching me sweat over it instead, now.... ;)
 
I Will have it work right of the bat - I have a thing about that. Really tired right now and I have to get up at 7 ish this morning with the beast that wont sleep after the sun raises.
Steve.
 
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Thank you for finding that. It was an active topology that could have translated to a nice highpass, yes. Using those ideas, I got it to happen "the hard way" at post #43.

Look at the date, though, in the context of this:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=150939

2452H-SL became "back burner" when EconoWave went mainstream here, and I have merely dabbled in doing my own stuff since. The preferred driver at LHF was 2435HPL because JBL was using it in their TOTL consumer products and they were more readily available, and I did participate in working with those over there, as well. Giskard ultimately conceded that 2452H-SL was the better driver, but not even he ever ran with it. I offered to send him a pair to work with, but he declined, largely, I suspect, because the primary source for those drivers for DIY was (and still is) indeterminant back-door grey-market sales.

Same's true of 2435HPL, of course, but they did not suffer from Zilch being their primary proponent. You can see some of that going on in that thread. My work over there generated major upheaval on the site, ultimately leading to the addition of a DIY forum, which I believe worked to the advantage of everyone. That bias has somewhat tempered over the intervening years, but the mere mention of my subsequent work still raises hackles among the diehard purists.

[Byword: tread lightly.... :tongue: ]
 
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