Going Digital!

[slippers-on]

fellas...why not have the iUSB3.0 down stream into the DAC , rather than the REGEN, seeing that the iUSB3.0 does more filtering than the REGEN? seems to me they need to be flip flopped...have the REGEN as first component from the computer? Would not the filtering that was done by the iUSB3.0 be lost once it enters and exits the REGEN?

 

[slippers-on]

Also fellas...I'm reading more and more positive reports on the iUSB3.0 and how it's improving the sound of other DACs as well...the latest was a positive report of how it's improved the performance of that new High dollar DAC by Schitt Audio.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784530/uk-head-fi-mini-meet-oxford-october-9-10-2015


And also it seems iFI has also come out with the new IPurifier 2! Guys are saying it's even better than the first version....I wonder if this is a stab at The Jitterbug?

 

[Lee Harvey]

I believe the Pangea not being 3.0 negates what the 3.0 USB cable is doing. Have you used the hub yet?

I don't believe it negates what the 3.0 USB cable is doing. The iDSD itself has only a USB 2.0 input on it so you can only feed it a 2.0 connection. But there is a definite improvement using the faster, cleaner USB 3.0 cable and connections between the PC and the iUSB. I am still going with the theory that USB 3.0 is a cleaner signal to begin with over USB 2.0 and giving the iUSB a cleaner signal makes it have to work less.

fellas...why not have the iUSB3.0 down stream into the DAC , rather than the REGEN, seeing that the iUSB3.0 does more filtering than the REGEN? seems to me they need to be flip flopped...have the REGEN as first component from the computer? Would not the filtering that was done by the iUSB3.0 be lost once it enters and exits the REGEN?

I have tried it both ways with which one feeds what. Having the Regen feed the iDSD was a step backwards from just using either one of the devices. I have done some listening today with the iUSB feeding the Regen and damn its magic! I think I get the benefits of what both devices bring to the table. You get the airiness, resolution and great soundstage of the iUSB and then it keeps the fullness and richer tone of the Regen. Cymbals have a wonderfully detailed shimmer. Strings have more pluck to them. Drum heads have more snap. This combination is a real winner! I am keeping both pieces at this time. I also ordered one of those Supra USB cables to stick between the iUSB and the Regen to see what that does. I may also switch up the power supplies. Tune the LPS to 9 volts and have it power the iUSB since its job is send out clean 5 volt power. I think using the supplied low noise power supply is a bit redundant. The LPS is capable of delivering more current or grunt over the iFi's low noise PS. Then power the Regen with the iFi low noise PS so that we get the cleanest 5 volts to the iDSD possible and then the digital signal has been processed twice.

 

[Kt77]

Yeah...CD aught not even be mentioned, that is unless one is talking about ripping to DSD128! Man, these devices are simply a blessing with all the filtering that's going on....improving all of what we are hearing.....they really bring me closer to the music! Man I can't speak for any one else, but the iUSB 3.0 is still running in over here! I'm hearing something that would truly make one think he is listening to vinyl...I'm even closer to that warm vinyl sound as the iUSB3.0 seems to have hit another gear over here. I'm also seeing deeper into the music, and the spacing and staging are excellent! For the ultimate in relaxation, I can use the random option in the software and sit back...it's like I'm in musical discovery all over again.

TTYL.

I'm feelin' you loud and clear on that converting over to DSD 128 for real, and I'm inclined to say that you're correct in stating that the 3.0 is doing the users of computer audio a grave service as it cleans up the grudge that merely haven't taken into account, yet reside there on the very surface of each note and waiting to be spotted............, but very very very few have caught onto what's not there, until it's gone type of effect.

All I can say is........., there's no looking back with any sort of regret on my end, and I'm loving it for the here and now as well as days to come.

Enjoy it young Brotha, and Gods will, but I pray to share a listening session with you on the other side one of these days.

Peace Beyond To You And Yours.

FYB ( Forever Your Brother )
scar

 

[Kt77]

I don't believe it negates what the 3.0 USB cable is doing. The iDSD itself has only a USB 2.0 input on it so you can only feed it a 2.0 connection. But there is a definite improvement using the faster, cleaner USB 3.0 cable and connections between the PC and the iUSB. I am still going with the theory that USB 3.0 is a cleaner signal to begin with over USB 2.0 and giving the iUSB a cleaner signal makes it have to work less.



I have tried it both ways with which one feeds what. Having the Regen feed the iDSD was a step backwards from just using either one of the devices. I have done some listening today with the iUSB feeding the Regen and damn its magic! I think I get the benefits of what both devices bring to the table. You get the airiness, resolution and great soundstage of the iUSB and then it keeps the fullness and richer tone of the Regen. Cymbals have a wonderfully detailed shimmer. Strings have more pluck to them. Drum heads have more snap. This combination is a real winner! I am keeping both pieces at this time. I also ordered one of those Supra USB cables to stick between the iUSB and the Regen to see what that does. I may also switch up the power supplies. Tune the LPS to 9 volts and have it power the iUSB since its job is send out clean 5 volt power. I think using the supplied low noise power supply is a bit redundant. The LPS is capable of delivering more current or grunt over the iFi's low noise PS. Then power the Regen with the iFi low noise PS so that we get the cleanest 5 volts to the iDSD possible and then the digital signal has been processed twice.

Byron,

I'd have to say that I'm in agreement with Lee Harvey on how these work together, and as he has stated the tandem is magical to say the least, as the tonal shadings of all instruments is where I believe the Regen offers a slightly better presentation along with an added sense of weight and bass impact that's quite addictive, as always, I dint have a problem sending the Regen to you so that you can get a feel for it yourself, as Lee Harvey has mentioned earlier on.........., I don't see the cost of both as in anyway causing one to have to sell body parts to own both, and the proof is indeed in the listening, I know mine are here to stay.............., and once that Supra USB cable entered into the mix..........., it's a wrap.

So for me, it's a slightly better LPS and let's forget upscale USB cables from this point on, because as I hear it there's something going on here that's more about synergy that makes one not second guess what's playing right before their ears, and it's the reason I called you lastnight............., this USB cable has to be heard to be believed, as it has caused me to regroup on that whole silver plated copper versus copper based USB cabling thing all together, and here in tandem with the iDSD and 3.0 is in fact the best combination I've tried to date, and one that I'll be riding out.

I can't explain how such a cheap USB cable is doing it..........., but it has won some awards that more costlier ones haven't, so in hindsight there's something to it.

" Magical indeed ".

 

[slippers-on]

I don't believe it negates what the 3.0 USB cable is doing. The iDSD itself has only a USB 2.0 input on it so you can only feed it a 2.0 connection. But there is a definite improvement using the faster, cleaner USB 3.0 cable and connections between the PC and the iUSB. I am still going with the theory that USB 3.0 is a cleaner signal to begin with over USB 2.0 and giving the iUSB a cleaner signal makes it have to work less.



I have tried it both ways with which one feeds what. Having the Regen feed the iDSD was a step backwards from just using either one of the devices. I have done some listening today with the iUSB feeding the Regen and damn its magic! I think I get the benefits of what both devices bring to the table. You get the airiness, resolution and great soundstage of the iUSB and then it keeps the fullness and richer tone of the Regen. Cymbals have a wonderfully detailed shimmer. Strings have more pluck to them. Drum heads have more snap. This combination is a real winner! I am keeping both pieces at this time. I also ordered one of those Supra USB cables to stick between the iUSB and the Regen to see what that does. I may also switch up the power supplies. Tune the LPS to 9 volts and have it power the iUSB since its job is send out clean 5 volt power. I think using the supplied low noise power supply is a bit redundant. The LPS is capable of delivering more current or grunt over the iFi's low noise PS. Then power the Regen with the iFi low noise PS so that we get the cleanest 5 volts to the iDSD possible and then the digital signal has been processed twice.

Even tho the new iFI Mini DAC will have 3.0.......This is more of what I was driving at. Superdad is the guy who makes the REGEN.

Originally Posted by westy
I'm far from an expert but I think as long as the chain remains in 3.0 everything in that chain would be 3.0. Branching off from that chain to a 2.0 device would only affect items in that chain.

(superdad said)........You are correct, although it is slightly more complicated than that. USB 3.0 SuperSpeed uses additional wires to achieve its greater throughput. Here is a pretty decent article explaining a lot of the differences:What is the Difference Between USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 Hubs?
(you can just skim through the first part but pick up reading just before the section on Data Buffering And Throughput)

AFAIK, iFi has not published an explanation for their choice to use a USB 3.0 hub chip (since no DACs support SuperSpeed and that is pretty much all the extra complexity of the 3.0 hub chip offers). I am not sure if it applies to High-Speed 2.0 signals, but 3.0 chips do have a bit larger buffer to handle the much higher throughput.
[Disclaimer: Although they are a competitor, I make these comments strictly with curiosity and 100% without judgement regarding their design. They are sharp folks and I have not heard the product for myself (nor will I comment once I have).

]

Cheers,
--Alex C.

 

[Kt77]

Also fellas...I'm reading more and more positive reports on the iUSB3.0 and how it's improving the sound of other DACs as well...the latest was a positive report of how it's improved the performance of that new High dollar DAC by Schitt Audio.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784530/uk-head-fi-mini-meet-oxford-october-9-10-2015


And also it seems iFI has also come out with the new IPurifier 2! Guys are saying it's even better than the first version....I wonder if this is a stab at The Jitterbug?

Great report. And of course it's an attempt at gaining some of the Jitterbug's glory, but here's one better..............., try placing it directly onto either your Regen or 3.0 with the USB cabling from the computer placed as is, and then plugged into the jitterbug right before it enters either device and see what you think?.

Maybe I'm losing it?, but the verdict is still out on that one ( I guess ).

 

[slippers-on]

Byron,

I'd have to say that I'm in agreement with Lee Harvey on how these work together, and as he has stated the tandem is magical to say the least, as the tonal shadings of all instruments is where I believe the Regen offers a slightly better presentation along with an added sense of weight and bass impact that's quite addictive, as always, I dint have a problem sending the Regen to you so that you can get a feel for it yourself, as Lee Harvey has mentioned earlier on.........., I don't see the cost of both as in anyway causing one to have to sell body parts to own both, and the proof is indeed in the listening, I know mine are here to stay.............., and once that Supra USB cable entered into the mix..........., it's a wrap.

So for me, it's a slightly better LPS and let's forget upscale USB cables from this point on, because as I hear it there's something going on here that's more about synergy that makes one not second guess what's playing right before their ears, and it's the reason I called you lastnight............., this USB cable has to be heard to be believed, as it has caused me to regroup on that whole silver plated copper versus copper based USB cabling thing all together, and here in tandem with the iDSD and 3.0 is in fact the best combination I've tried to date, and one that I'll be riding out.

I can't explain how such a cheap USB cable is doing it..........., but it has won some awards that more costlier ones haven't, so in hindsight there's something to it.

" Magical indeed ".

Fellas.....im not so sure there is one way of achieving the best solution now. It is system dependent as usual. The guy I quoted about which goes by the handle of "westy" has both devices as well and has done extensive listening test as well. He has stated that he has used both in different configurations...even the hub. His best result is the opposite of Lee Harvey's solution. So I think it comes down to ones hearing and ones gear...but there is no one solution that will fit all it seems.

 

[slippers-on]

Great report. And of course it's an attempt at gaining some of the Jitterbug's glory, but here's one better..............., try placing it directly onto either your Regen or 3.0 with the USB cabling from the computer placed as is, and then plugged into the jitterbug right before it enters either device and see what you think?.

Maybe I'm losing it?, but the verdict is still out on that one ( I guess ).

I've the JB in the USB port of computer and cable coming off the JB into the iUSB. Great results, but the other way around reaped the same rewards.

 

[Kt77]

Fellas.....im not so sure there is one way of achieving the best solution now. It is system dependent as usual. The guy I quoted about which goes by the handle of "westy" has both devices as well and has done extensive listening test as well. He has stated that he has used both in different configurations...even the hub. His best result is the opposite of Lee Harvey's solution. So I think it comes down to ones hearing and ones gear...but there is no one solution that will fit all it seems.

Byron,

I remember you providing that link a few days ago, so I was curious enough to try it before Lee Harvey bought it up, and like the sonic results, so in that sense I can't explain the science behind why it works, but by you knowing me..........., I'd hope by now that you'd know I've decent enough hearing abilities to merely speak the truth as it relates to my ears, and in saying that............, it works in my system.

 

[Kt77]

I've the JB in the USB port of computer and cable coming off the JB into the iUSB. Great results, but the other way around reaped the same rewards.

Good deal, it merely shows that if one is using two devices say Regen|Regen or 3.0|Regen this method works onto the device leaving the computer with the Jitterbug placed onto the USB cable as it goes towards the second device instead of directly into the computer itself.

Once again, merely trying different locations and going by what seems to work with said two devices as opposed to one, maybe that's where it differs?. But I like what I'm hearing, and once again owe you a debt of thanks for getting me to this point.

 

[Kt77]

Good deal, it merely shows that if one is using two devices say Regen|Regen or 3.0|Regen this method works onto the device leaving the computer with the Jitterbug placed onto the USB cable as it goes towards the second device instead of directly into the computer itself.

Once again, merely trying different locations and going by what seems to work with said two devices as opposed to one, maybe that's where it differs?. But I like what I'm hearing, and once again owe you a debt of thanks for getting me to this point.

Good deal, it merely shows that if one is using two devices say Regen|Regen or 3.0|Regen this method works onto the device leaving the computer with the Jitterbug placed onto the USB cable as it goes towards the second device instead of directly into the computer itself.

Once again, merely trying different locations and going by what seems to work with said two devices as opposed to one, maybe that's where it differs?. But I like what I'm hearing, and once again owe you a debt of thanks for getting me to this point.

Case in point, post # 1597, was the logic for trying the devices with the jitterbug in said manner:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...egen-listening-impressions-24078/index64.html

 

[Kt77]

USB 3.0 has higher filtering and data throughput. So using a USB 2.0 complaint device, negates the USB 3.0 benefits. I think Byron is spot on in this case. The regen device would have to be USB 3.0 complaint in order to get the USB 3.0 benefits.

Currently, the way y'all are using it, it is hobbled.

http://electronicdesign.com/embedded/what-s-difference-between-usb-20-and-30-hubs

True that, but isn't the 3.0 being hobbled to begin with as its the not being used with say an iDAC 2 which itself has 3.0 USB connectors?, I'm merely basing my findings upon the sound I'm obtaining in this manner, as the technical stuff eludes me as compared to actual listening.

 

[slippers-on]

True that, but isn't the 3.0 being hobbled to begin with as its the not being used with say an iDAC 2 which itself has 3.0 USB connectors?, I'm merely basing my findings upon the sound I'm obtaining in this manner, as the technical stuff eludes me as compared to actual listening.

Oscar...I've this very question over at AMR support.

Im not so sure the iFI Micro isnt benefitting from 3.0 technology. Remember...it already came with 3.0 cables! Now I do know iFI was preparing their future devices for 3.0 technology, because all the next products to come out will have 3.0.

Some of what the iUSB is doing is able to be heard in the Micro now...like some of the filtering like darker back ground, elimination of the Jitter and a few other things....but I wonder about the speed of the 3.0? It seems the Micro would not benefit from it, but Lee Harvey has said there is a difference with his 3.0's speed if im not mistaken?

 

[Kt77]

Oscar...I've this very question over at AMR support.

Im not so sure the iFI Micro isnt benefitting from 3.0 technology. Remember...it already came with 3.0 cables! Now I do know iFI was preparing their future devices for 3.0 technology, because all the next products to come out will have 3.0.

Some of what the iUSB is doing is able to be heard in the Micro now...like some of the filtering like darker back ground, elimination of the Jitter and a few other things....but I wonder about the speed of the 3.0? It seems the Micro would not benefit from it, but Lee Harvey has said there is a difference with his 3.0's speed if im not mistaken?

Good point little Brotha,

As it seems that iFi are in fact gearing up towards some new introduction pieces, and we'll have to adjust accordingly, but I for one am staying true to what I do hear as extraordinary pieces that make music, and while I've admitted to not understanding all the math behind the 3.0 vs 2.0 thing as it relates to speed and such, as I've taken the time to buy a true 3.0 USB cable as I'm enjoying the sonics so much with what's in place already, so I'll watching their DACs in the months to come, or just downsize to their iDAC 2 which is ready to go as far as 3.0 connection goes, granted it lacks one of the chips in the Micro iDSD, but has that one reviewer said its smoother and offers more resolution, so it's merely a matter of trade offs, but in life as it stands..............., we've all made trade offs in one form or the other.

Yet, I'll sit back and enjoy the ride and see what Lee Harvey turns up?, as it doesn't hurt to use things a little bit differently then most would dare, it's the only way to know what works.

And apparently the ride is far from over. But as always..............., it has become one of the best ones I've been on short of going to Cedar Point Amusement Park years ago, so hold onto to something.............., because it's not over until that fat arse chick sings.

 

[Lee Harvey]

USB 3.0 has higher filtering and data throughput. So using a USB 2.0 complaint device, negates the USB 3.0 benefits. I think Byron is spot on in this case. The regen device would have to be USB 3.0 complaint in order to get the USB 3.0 benefits.

Currently, the way y'all are using it, it is hobbled.

http://electronicdesign.com/embedded/what-s-difference-between-usb-20-and-30-hubs

True, the Regen is a USB 2.0 device. The iDSD Micro is also a 2.0 device. But feeding these devices with a cleaner power supply and cleaner data stream that the iUSB 3.0 and USB 3.0 type cable brings benefits to both. Yes, the iUSB 3.0 has to down shift the signal to a 2.0 speed for the Regen & iDSD but it has already done its job of improving the signal. I do come from an electronic engineering background and I remember that impedance matching between components is very important when it comes to maximizing power transmission and minimizing the alteration of a analog signal. Because that data stream is an analog signal. It's just that the USB receiver in a DAC interprets whether it is seeing a 1 or 0 depending on state of the voltage it is receiving. Maintaining a 90 ohm impedance between the computer source and the DAC minimizes the alteration of the data signal. I had a ticket opened with iFi support this week and they verified that using a 90 ohm compliant cable is very important. Also if you do some reading over on Regen thread on Computeraudiophile Alex/Superdad brings up this point too about maintaining a 90 ohm impedance. That is probably why he suggests the Supra USB cable because according to its spec's its a 90 ohm cable.

Hopefully when iFI releases their iDSD Pro this next year it will have a USB 3.0 imput on it? That is what I think their plan is since the iUSB 3.0 is a fully 3.0 compliant device. With the whole chain using USB 3.0 and impedanced matched cabling we should not need the use of over priced fancy USB cables, JitterBugs, whatever that Schiit thing is and the Regen in the future?

 

[slippers-on]

True, the Regen is a USB 2.0 device. The iDSD Micro is also a 2.0 device. But feeding these devices with a cleaner power supply and cleaner data stream that the iUSB 3.0 and USB 3.0 type cable brings benefits to both. Yes, the iUSB 3.0 has to down shift the signal to a 2.0 speed for the Regen & iDSD but it has already done its job of improving the signal. I do come from an electronic engineering background and I remember that impedance matching between components is very important when it comes to maximizing power transmission and minimizing the alteration of a analog signal. Because that data stream is an analog signal. It's just that the USB receiver in a DAC interprets whether it is seeing a 1 or 0 depending on state of the voltage it is receiving. Maintaining a 90 ohm impedance between the computer source and the DAC minimizes the alteration of the data signal. I had a ticket opened with iFi support this week and they verified that using a 90 ohm compliant cable is very important. Also if you do some reading over on Regen thread on Computeraudiophile Alex/Superdad brings up this point too about maintaining a 90 ohm impedance. That is probably why he suggests the Supra USB cable because according to its spec's its a 90 ohm cable.

Hopefully when iFI releases their iDSD Pro this next year it will have a USB 3.0 imput on it? That is what I think their plan is since the iUSB 3.0 is a fully 3.0 compliant device. With the whole chain using USB 3.0 and impedanced matched cabling we should not need the use of over priced fancy USB cables, JitterBugs, whatever that Schiit thing is and the Regen in the future?

From what I understand, iFI/AMR is putting the 3.0 standard in all their future devices. Also Kevin, the new Purifier 2 might be a device to unseat the JB....so that might be a direction to go in as well. Im sure it will cost more as the iFI seems to be all metal devices which is very appealing! There are a few reviews of it out...might be the iClub members who are reviewing it as I dont think the official release has happened as of yet.

 

[slippers-on]

So basically what AMR told me was...

The IDSD DAC and all other DACs for that matter run on USB 2.0 Standard however the IUSB 3.0 is future proofed as its 3.0 standard.

Also....they said if you plug the IUSB 3.0 into a 3.0 HDD with a 3.0 cable, until you break that 3.0 chain, you are 100% 3.0 and will reap all the benefits.

If using the IUSB3.0 and not 100% 3.0 into the DAC, you still get the improved technology of the improved IPurifier, the REgenerator, REclock, REbalance and the active noise canceling.

If you have 100% USB 3.0 into the iMicro DSD DAC, the benefit of the USB 3.0 cable is the superspeed of the USB3.0 standard which is much better for DSD which is much faster in processing compared to PCM.

 

[Kt77]

So basically what AMR told me was...

The IDSD DAC and all other DACs for that matter run on USB 2.0 Standard however the IUSB 3.0 is future proofed as its 3.0 standard.

Also....they said if you plug the IUSB 3.0 into a 3.0 HDD with a 3.0 cable, until you break that 3.0 chain, you are 100% 3.0 and will reap all the benefits.

If using the IUSB3.0 and not 100% 3.0 into the DAC, you still get the improved technology of the improved IPurifier, the REgenerator, REclock, REbalance and the active noise canceling.

If you have 100% USB 3.0 into the iMicro DSD DAC, the benefit of the USB 3.0 cable is the superspeed of the USB3.0 standard which is much better for DSD which is much faster in processing compared to PCM.

As always.........., great way to follow up on what's going on with this companies wares, as well as worthwhile options to consider with USB cabling, as it does make sense to give them a shot.

Thanks little Brotha, catch you on the next go round.

 

[slippers-on]

iPurifier 2

Read about here! This may be better than the Jitter Bug!

http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread

http://www.head-fi.org/t/779504/ifi...-back-in-the-hat-and-new-2-winner-page-24/375