ryanward84
Well-Known Member
I'm looking for a good cart to match with my Denon DP 1200 arm which has an effective mass around 15g.
Price under $150.
Price under $150.
Good cart match for Denon DP 1200
- Thread starter ryanward84
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Balifly
Listening
Slightly below budget:
Audio Technica AT 95VL
http://www.lpgear.com/product/LPGAT95VL.html
Shure M 97xE
https://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-...eywords=shure+m97xe&psc=1&smid=A1FEN8WPYFT9YE
A bit above budget:
Audio Technica AT 440 MLb
https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Techni...UTF8&qid=1477499061&sr=8-1&keywords=at+440mlb
ryanward84
Well-Known Member
Slightly below budget:
Audio Technica AT 95VL
http://www.lpgear.com/product/LPGAT95VL.html
Shure M 97xE
https://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-...eywords=shure+m97xe&psc=1&smid=A1FEN8WPYFT9YE
A bit above budget:
Audio Technica AT 440 MLb
https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Techni...UTF8&qid=1477499061&sr=8-1&keywords=at+440mlb
Thanks! I have looked into the AT95VL and it seems to get great reviews. The AT 440 might be a little out of the price range but I'll keep my eye out if they go on sale. I've also heard good things about the Nagoka MP-110 and I think it would match up well with my medium/high mass arm.
Hi,
The MP110 is not a good match. Nagoaka's published compliance
specs have been for decades much lower than the reality. The real
values are quite high and make a mockery of their cartridge mass.
(Though they explain the typically excellent tracking ability.)
+1 for the AT95VL. Ideal. Tip will last much longer, > 3 times
than any other budget elliptical and sound better than nearly
all of them (well set up) with its VL 0,2 minor radius. Its the
big major radius, 3.0, compared to an ellipticals 0.7 rhat
gives the extra stylus life, and reduces any record wear.
It also tracks a different groove to typical sphericals
and ellipticals, making the best of older worn records.
rgds, sreten.
The MP110 is not a good match. Nagoaka's published compliance
specs have been for decades much lower than the reality. The real
values are quite high and make a mockery of their cartridge mass.
(Though they explain the typically excellent tracking ability.)
+1 for the AT95VL. Ideal. Tip will last much longer, > 3 times
than any other budget elliptical and sound better than nearly
all of them (well set up) with its VL 0,2 minor radius. Its the
big major radius, 3.0, compared to an ellipticals 0.7 rhat
gives the extra stylus life, and reduces any record wear.
It also tracks a different groove to typical sphericals
and ellipticals, making the best of older worn records.
rgds, sreten.
ryanward84
Well-Known Member
Would something like this VL stylus replacement http://www.lpgear.com/product/SHN091VL.html and a Shure M91ED make a good match and provide similar benefits as the AT95VL?
ryanward84
Well-Known Member
I've never had an MC cart but the Denons get so many great reviews it is tempting. As I am ignorant about MC a couple questions; first do I need a pre or receiver with an MC input? I primarily switch between a Yamaha A1 integrated (which has MC) and CR 1020 (which doesn't). I am looking at the Denon DL-103 an it is suppose to be loaded at 100ohms which would work great with the A1 but probably not the 1020. I'm assuming since it has a an output of only 0.3 that it wouldn't work well with the phono stage on the 1020?
Hi,
I'd expect the the Shure combination to work better in much lower mass arms than the AT95VL.
I can't say much about the sound, I don't know the Shure, but it seems fairly high compliance.
Too high IMO for an effective mass of around 20g (arm effective mass + cartridge weight).
rgds, sreten.
Its rough and ready but tracking force is a good clue as to cartridge compliance,
as its the only issue that effects tracking at low frequencies. The AT95VL tracks
at about 2g whilst the M91ED tracks at about 1.25g, so it suits significantly
lighter arms than the AT95VL to be a better choice. FWIW cartridges of
the M91ED vintage generally preferred high trackability at low tracking
forces for specification than actual good compatibility with most arms.
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ryanward84
Well-Known Member
I think you are correct on that. Even though Shure doesn't list compliance I bet they are higher. It actually surprises me that there are less options than I would expect for quality low/mid compliance carts in the $100 to 200 range other than Audio Technica.
ryanward84
Well-Known Member
Well, after having used my Ortofon OM10 for about 18 months, I think it's time I either replace/upgrade the stylus or go with a new cartridge. I enjoy my system and so I am in search of a cart that will play well with the previously mentioned Denon DP 1200 and also my Yamaha CR 1020 and ADS L810 speakers.
The amp is very neutral and clear an the speakers provide a lot of bass and good balanced mids and highs so they match up well to my ears. The OM10 sounds better than the AT95E I used before, more balanced and less shrill top end, but I am interested in trying something new. I get the feeling that if I get a cart that is too "warm" or bassy that my system will sound muddy... but I also don't want my system to sound shrill or with strident treble.
Here are my considerations within my around $100 budget:
OM20 stylus or LP gear equivalent
Nagaoka MP110
Grado Blue or Red
Vessel A3SE
New AT VM95EN nude stylus and AT95 body
AT95VL
AT VM520EB
Any other suggestions or experience with these cars and their sound?
The amp is very neutral and clear an the speakers provide a lot of bass and good balanced mids and highs so they match up well to my ears. The OM10 sounds better than the AT95E I used before, more balanced and less shrill top end, but I am interested in trying something new. I get the feeling that if I get a cart that is too "warm" or bassy that my system will sound muddy... but I also don't want my system to sound shrill or with strident treble.
Here are my considerations within my around $100 budget:
OM20 stylus or LP gear equivalent
Nagaoka MP110
Grado Blue or Red
Vessel A3SE
New AT VM95EN nude stylus and AT95 body
AT95VL
AT VM520EB
Any other suggestions or experience with these cars and their sound?
Balifly
Listening
The only cartridge under $100.00 is the Vessel A3SE with the "Super elliptical" stylus.
Super and ultra elliptical usually means HE, hyper elliptical a good thing!
ryanward84
Well-Known Member
The only cartridge under $100.00 is the Vessel A3SE with the "Super elliptical" stylus.
Super and ultra elliptical usually means HE, hyper elliptical a good thing!
I am very curious about trying the Vessel cart but I actually just picked up a Grado Blue1 for cheap, so we'll see how I like it. I think it is a little higher complaint than is ideal (but so was the Ortofon and that has worked well). Maybe a light headshell matched with the Grado will be a good idea.
ryanward84
Well-Known Member
Here are a few shots of my newly mounted Grado Blue1. I am not a set up pro but I set VTF at 1.7 and anti skate at .5 as recommended by other Grado users. I used Baewald protractor I found online for a quick alignment and I spun a couple records.
I will probably play around with VTF and dial in alignment a little more precisely this weekend. It sounds good though. No tracking issues (though I only played records in VG++ condition). It has nice warm bass and forward mids. Top end is a bit rolled of but I can hear detail. I'm getting used to the sound characteristics but I like it!
I will probably play around with VTF and dial in alignment a little more precisely this weekend. It sounds good though. No tracking issues (though I only played records in VG++ condition). It has nice warm bass and forward mids. Top end is a bit rolled of but I can hear detail. I'm getting used to the sound characteristics but I like it!
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sturgus
Well-Known Member
Is the mass of the Denon's arm to light for the Nag-110? It's mass is not given in the manual. It does say cartridges between 5-11g can be used. Just a little confused by your answer. I re read the op and saw the 15g mass.
By the way to the OP I think the LP-gear Vessel is another one you should look at.
https://www.lpgear.com/product/THEVESSELA3SE.html
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ryanward84
Well-Known Member
Yes, Vessel A3SE and Nagaoka MP110 are both carts I considered. I just found a Grado with a a few hours on it for cheap and decided to give it a try.
sturgus
Well-Known Member
Kool!!! I like Grados, I just bought a Black-2 to try out. The Grados I have used so far really like my AQ-P-T9 with fluid damping. I am thinking of trying the Longhorn mod on the Black and trying it on a Rega arm.
Balifly
Listening
There is no reason to think that the mass of the Denon DP-1200 tone arm is too light for the Nagaoka MP-110.
I have use the Nagaoka MP-110 on my Denon DP-1200 plenty of times.
It is a pretty good match compliance wise too.
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ryanward84
Well-Known Member
Some more observations of Grado Blue. It specs state it's output is 5 mv but that is definitely exaggerated. It's probably closer to 3.5 mv. It sound nice when I crank the volume knob a bit though.
I realize that this thread is a little old, but as a Denon DP-1200 owner, I thought I would throw in my $0.02. I get a nice sound out of my stereo system with a Pickering V15 P/ATE1 with a tracking force and antiskate of 2.5 g. I know this is a vintage cartridge, and I am currently using an aftermarket stylus (Pfansteihl 4604-DEC). For completeness, I have an Acoustic Six York phono stage, an Onkyo TX-666 stereo receiver, and ELAC Debut 2 6.2 bookshelf speakers. I hope this helps others with this decision.
