Has vinyl peaked?

[JohnVF]

I think it's foolhardy to say that interest in vinyl has peaked, when it is still a niche market. In other words, the turntable owning group is a small minority of music buyers (which is itself becoming a small minority), and so the growth potential for vinyl is enormous. I suspect that as digital downloads become the norm, the horrible sound quality of them will drive more of the younger kids to vinyl. I have seen this in my own experience. In my family, the church I attend, and the college at which I work, I know several 18-22 yr olds who have just acquired turntables (some as gifts from me) and love the sound. They haven't given up their silly smart phones and I-whatevers, of course, but the interest is there and seems to me to be growing. Let's not forget that more and more young people are being created every day.
So, if the older audiophiles want to switch to digital, more power to them. If changing a record is too much of a pain in the ass, then by all means, go running to your DACs and FLACs and Spotify or whatever the new fad may be. Just be aware that when those technologies become obsolete in a few years, you may start to miss your vinyl again.

You're mistaken about the obvious sound quality issues of digital downloads. Gone are the days when you were stuck with low bit rate MP3s. Even the streaming services sound decent enough now, especially Mog, and high-resolution downloads can sound absolutely fantastic. Its not that running to the TT is such a pain in the ass, its that to me at least, its that the added work no longer has any obvious reward, and its just becoming a needless ritual when I get the same or better sound quality elsewhere.

I'm not ditching my turntable and I'm not selling my records. But I'm also not buying a new turntable, and I've decided to stop buying vinyl this year for the most part. I just don't listen to it as much as I used to.

 

[Pandovski]

I used to spend tons of money on vinyl when I used to DJ. Always bought new pressings of tech-house, minimal, techno, d'n'b. All the rock, jazz and pop albums I got and I keep getting for free. I also give most of them away for free to friends and fellow audiophiles who feel the vinyl calling.

 

[trhee]

This oozes of luddism, or is it neo-luddism?

Digital downloads is not becoming the norm, it already is the norm and has been for the past few years as evidenced by industry sales figures. While I agree that low rez downloads leaves a lot to be desired, hi rez downloads are gaining in popularity at an alarming rate, again according to industry sales figures.

There used to be a time when a modest turntable would outperform more expensive, cutting edge digital gear. Those days are long gone, as digital has advanced quite markedly, especially in the past 10 years.

I suspect that as digital downloads become the norm, the horrible sound quality of them will drive more of the younger kids to vinyl. I have seen this in my own experience.

What makes owning a smartphone or "I-whatevers" so silly? Like anything else in life, there are pros and cons and it's for each individual to decide whether the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa. If nothing else, an iPhone is far superior to any "Sony walkman" from the 80's in terms of sound quality and convenience. That it takes pretty good photos, makes and receives phone calls and capable of most basic computer functions makes it far from silly IMO.

Let's face it, a young person these days would choose an iPhone or other smartphone over owning a turntable without even a blink of an eye.

They haven't given up their silly smart phones and I-whatevers, of course, but the interest is there and seems to me to be growing. Let's not forget that more and more young people are being created every day.

I don't think you can categorize those switching over to digital by age. There are a lot of AK members here that are "older audiophiles" who remain analogue and vice versa.

Digital is not something new. DACs have been around from the beginning of digital. While FLAC may be a newer codec, it is hardly a fad and has been around since 2000. Technology is a wonderful thing that should be taken advantage of to enhance our lives which is not to say that each individual has to embrace anything and everything. If mankind didn't do so, we'd still be without audio systems and frequenting live performances instead.

Lastly, all technologies relevant to electronics become obsolete and superseded by newer technologies. It does not mean that we all need to revert back to older technologies.

So, if the older audiophiles want to switch to digital, more power to them. If changing a record is too much of a pain in the ass, then by all means, go running to your DACs and FLACs and Spotify or whatever the new fad may be. Just be aware that when those technologies become obsolete in a few years, you may start to miss your vinyl again.

 

[JohnVF]

That does get a bit into another reason why I and a few of my friends are drifting from vinyl. We just want to play records but instead we get caught up in what else it says about us, and frankly I don't want some of that said about me. Its a hobby that over the years (and probably prior, I just wasn't in it back then) has taken on this snobbery and gathered a whole heap of baseless biases against other formats.

I have owned an iPod since 2004. I have an iPhone. Somewhere I have 8000 mp3s on a hard drive that entertained me for many years. I now have several thousand full-resolution FLAC and AIFF files that entertain me just fine, and say nothing about my personality or ability to make logical or rational decisions. I just like the music contained within.

In fact, the more I type this little rant the more its becoming clear to me that the reason I think I'm drifting out of vinyl has nothing to do with the records or the record players. I simply have become disenchanted with the crowd. I'm not a Luddite. I'm not somebody who adheres to one format or another because of some arbitrary stance. Analog can be great. Digital can be great. But anymore it seems that you cannot have a discussion in vinyl circles that has any sense of that perspective. You have to choose. You have to have a side. You have to hold these completely irrational beliefs that we are on some downward slope from greatness to crap. That playing vinyl is a comment on the ills of society and standing against them. No, its not. Its playing a record.

I can't deal with the dogma around it anymore. And I know I could just ignore it, but part of the hobby I like is talking about the gear and talking about recordings, as well as listening to them.

I think I'm going to go listen to music on YouTube now. Its music that isn't tainted by all of this, even if it sounds terrible.

 

[jeremyjustic]

what I always find interesting about these types of debates is that people always imply it has to be one or the other, digital OR vinyl, like your preamp only has one input or the universe will implode if you enjoy BOTH.


In my system I have two turntables (4 tonearms and carts) a Cd player, and a computer server. Everything has it's time and place. In the mornings when I am getting ready for work or cleaning the house and don't want to be tethered to a turntable I listen to digital, when I want to sit down, listen to music and decompress I throw on a record. If I don't feel like cleaning a record I throw on a CD, if I want to check out a new release I put on spotify.


The "either or" attitude saw a lot of guys selling off their vinyl when they got cd players only to regret it years later. I would be careful not to fall into that same hole again

 

[jeremyjustic]

That does get a bit into another reason why I and a few of my friends are drifting from vinyl. We just want to play records but instead we get caught up in what else it says about us, and frankly I don't want some of that said about me. Its a hobby that over the years (and probably prior, I just wasn't in it back then) has taken on this snobbery and gathered a whole heap of baseless biases against other formats.

I have owned an iPod since 2004. I have an iPhone. Somewhere I have 8000 mp3s on a hard drive that entertained me for many years. I now have several thousand full-resolution FLAC and AIFF files that entertain me just fine, and say nothing about my personality or ability to make logical or rational decisions. I just like the music contained within.

In fact, the more I type this little rant the more its becoming clear to me that the reason I think I'm drifting out of vinyl has nothing to do with the records or the record players. I simply have become disenchanted with the crowd. I'm not a Luddite. I'm not somebody who adheres to one format or another because of some arbitrary stance. Analog can be great. Digital can be great. But anymore it seems that you cannot have a discussion in vinyl circles that has any sense of that perspective. You have to choose. You have to have a side. You have to hold these completely irrational beliefs that we are on some downward slope from greatness to crap. That playing vinyl is a comment on the ills of society and standing against them. No, its not. Its playing a record.

I can't deal with the dogma around it anymore. And I know I could just ignore it, but part of the hobby I like is talking about the gear and talking about recordings, as well as listening to them.

I think I'm going to go listen to music on YouTube now. Its music that isn't tainted by all of this, even if it sounds terrible.

well to be fair John you did start this thread, you are a smart guy so you knew where it would be going. I wouldn't worry about what others think or their dogma, just enjoy your music however you see fit.

 

[JohnVF]

well to be fair John you did start this thread, you are a smart guy so you knew where it would be going. I wouldn't worry about what others think or their dogma, just enjoy your music however you see fit.

Yeah, I figured it would go there and certainly I've fed it a little. I'm just thinking out loud about why I'm seeing a downturn among my friends and acquaintances in their interest in records/record players. It's been almost across the board in my close friends. "I'm over it" being an oft-heard phrase from them. Like all things, burn-out will probably be followed by a break, then later on a rediscovery of why it mattered in the first place, after the things that annoyed you are washed away. Most things are cyclical. I've been in a relationship (with a woman, not a turntable..) for 7 years that has had that same pattern.

 

[jeremyjustic]

yeah , you just need to remember that this is a hobby, in hobbies people come and go. I know I have had several hobbies over the years that I was deep in then lost interest in. Even records, although I have always had a record player and bought records there have been years in there that the turntable didn't get much use. collections have swelled and contracted then grew again. over all, despite its problems and unnecessary dogma, audio is a great hobby and brings more over all enjoyment then any of my other distractions.

 

[trhee]

As I get older, I just want to listen to music and convenience trumps all. With that said, I don't feel digital as being compromised in terms of sound quality so in the end, it's the best of both worlds.

I sold my VPI Scout last year and currently do not own a turntable. When I sold it, I was looking to upgrade but never got around to doing so and really haven't missed being without a turntable which speaks volumes. I still buy LP's though because I will eventually get around to buying a turntable but am in no rush at the moment.

In my case, I don't have the energy to endlessly tweak a turntable to sound it's best. When I was younger, the tweaky side of things was fun. Cleaning records upon records was fun. Swapping cables in and out of systems and spending all day listening to the differences was fun. These days, I still tweak in order to try and get the best sound, but the act of tweaking itself is nowhere near as fun as it used to be. Cleaning records is almost the same as cleaning dishes, in other words, a chore. I've been pondering that my next turntable may be a Rega and just be done with it as it is the least fussy, non-tweaky "audiophile" table that I can think of.

Yeah, I figured it would go there and certainly I've fed it a little. I'm just thinking out loud about why I'm seeing a downturn among my friends and acquaintances in their interest in records/record players. It's been almost across the board in my close friends. "I'm over it" being an oft-heard phrase from them. Like all things, burn-out will probably be followed by a break, then later on a rediscovery of why it mattered in the first place, after the things that annoyed you are washed away. Most things are cyclical. I've been in a relationship (with a woman, not a turntable..) for 7 years that has had that same pattern.

 

[DougMac]

We just want to play records but instead we get caught up in what else it says about us, and frankly I don't want some of that said about me.

Every once in a while I read something from a perspective I'd never even imagined. I have to say I have never thought about what playing records says about me. I didn't even realize it said something, much less something negative.

I've always enjoyed music. For most of my life the predominant media for recorded music was records. The comment above made me think of others who choose records when it is not common or easy. I guess it would make a statement.

I let everyone know I collect and listen to records. The possible negative impression some may have is more than offset by those who say: "Hey, I've got a box of records in the closet. I'll be happy to give them to you."

 

[kirk57]

That does get a bit into another reason why I and a few of my friends are drifting from vinyl. We just want to play records but instead we get caught up in what else it says about us, and frankly I don't want some of that said about me. Its a hobby that over the years (and probably prior, I just wasn't in it back then) has taken on this snobbery and gathered a whole heap of baseless biases against other formats.

I have owned an iPod since 2004. I have an iPhone. Somewhere I have 8000 mp3s on a hard drive that entertained me for many years. I now have several thousand full-resolution FLAC and AIFF files that entertain me just fine, and say nothing about my personality or ability to make logical or rational decisions. I just like the music contained within.

In fact, the more I type this little rant the more its becoming clear to me that the reason I think I'm drifting out of vinyl has nothing to do with the records or the record players. I simply have become disenchanted with the crowd. I'm not a Luddite. I'm not somebody who adheres to one format or another because of some arbitrary stance. Analog can be great. Digital can be great. But anymore it seems that you cannot have a discussion in vinyl circles that has any sense of that perspective. You have to choose. You have to have a side. You have to hold these completely irrational beliefs that we are on some downward slope from greatness to crap. That playing vinyl is a comment on the ills of society and standing against them. No, its not. Its playing a record.

I can't deal with the dogma around it anymore. And I know I could just ignore it, but part of the hobby I like is talking about the gear and talking about recordings, as well as listening to them.

I think I'm going to go listen to music on YouTube now. Its music that isn't tainted by all of this, even if it sounds terrible.

Sure, there are a few people who will repeat the silly 'digital sucks' mantra, but on the whole most people occupy a reasonable middle ground where both media types are enjoyed, for differing reasons.

In modern society, it does seem we find rather odd ways to organize into tribes, and there does seem to be a turntable tribe. I find it a bit funny that the many of the most vociferous members of the vinyl tribe haven't been playing records as long as I have, or even have as many LPs as I do.

Anyway, it doesn't have to be either/or, and for most people it isn't.

 

[Pandovski]

I obsess over gear too much already. If I expand over to decks and records, there will be literally no time to focus on the music. Bothering with eliminating wow, fluter, scratches, dirt, etc etc etc... I just hit play on my PC (can't be bothered with the CDP anymore!) and enjoy the sound I achieved with my setup and the music that sings in front of me.

With its sheer practically and pure fidelity, for ME hi-res digital media trumps anything analog. More time for music for a gearhead like me.

 

[JohnVF]

And in all of this, I just hooked my turntable back up after a few weeks of it sitting there like a beached whale. I put my tube stuff back in, too, in one system at least. And that systems is based around (ghasp) vintage speakers! And the amp has a loudness control. I'm fighting with myself.

 

[deeezy]

I also never thought my love of analog said anything about me other than the fact that I like that form of recorded music. If I should be seen as a snob or Luddite, then so be it. The reason I'm often so dismissive of digital is that when CD's originally came out, I heard so many people claim them to be superior (not just in convenience, but in sound) to LP's/tapes. I think that even most digital users nowadays will admit that the early CD's were of poor quality. Now everyone says that high-end DAC's/FLAC's/whatevers are as good as, or better than, vinyl/analog. Given my past experience with digital, and the way my wife's MP3's sound (no, I have no idea what the bit rate is), and the way every modern CD I've heard still sounds today, I can't see the point (for me) in investing any money in new digital playback equipment. If you like it, more power to you. I'm just trying to say that the analog crowd is still here, and if we die off, there will be more to take our place.
I choose not to use Spotify, because I have nothing to play it on (except my computer, with it's crappy little speakers). My wife uses it, likes it, but still prefers the sound quality of vinyl on my stereo. Again, I'm not trying to judge other's preferences for playback, but the point of this thread is to assess whether interest in vinyl has peaked, and I'm suggesting that it hasn't. For the younger generation, even though most have no idea what a stereo system even looks like (I am not exaggerating), it is far less expensive to cobble together a used turntable, amp, and speakers than it is to buy a high-end DAC, and connect that to a stereo or whatever the DAC connects to. The turntable will give them far better sound than a comparably priced CD player, and certainly better than MP3's on ear buds or computer speakers. Again, perhaps the high end digital stuff sounds alright; I don't have a burning need to find out as I have a lifetime's worth of music to listen to on vinyl/shellac, and more coming in with each estate sale. But most of the kids who care about sound will not be able to afford high end anything, and will get the maximum bang for their buck with analog. This is why I see interest in vinyl growing, not shrinking (unless kids stop caring about sound at all, which is a real possibility). Alright, my Luddite ass needs to get up and flip the Smokey Robinson and the Miracles record I bought for $1, and sounds as good as the day it was released (in 1965). Happy listening to all!

 

[deeezy]

Also, I don't mean to denigrate digital technology as a whole (I'm obviously using it now); I think it is a great way to store/retrieve data, perform complex calculations, etc. I don't think it works well for music, which is a special form of information. When thousands of interacting sine waves are translated to binary code, then back to sine waves again, something is lost in the translations. I know, everybody will gang up and tell me I'm an ignorant idiot, or tell me to watch the YouTube video where the engineer shows what a digital wave looks like graphically; it just sounds to my ears as if something is missing with digital music, and that thing is what makes music exciting for me. Call it resonance, life, warmth (I hate that term), whatever, it just sounds different, and some of us can't adjust to that difference. Viva analog!

 

[jeremyjustic]

Guys I think John means that in some circles turntables are the new hip thing, when people our age hear you like turntables they automatically lump you in with the hipster crowd. Seeing that so many here love to bash hipsters it's pretty understandable why thats not necessarily a good thing.

Also part of being an innovator is moving on when others have followed your lead.

 

[JohnVF]

Basically fanboyism is killing this hobby for me. I only listen to turntables! You suck if you don't! I only listen to Sansui! You suck if you don't. I only listen to (x). You suck if you don't like (x).

Its bullshit. Its people being assholes and assholes kill fun.

And deezy, please don't think I'm calling you an asshole. The behavior I'm referring to is far more pointed than your opinion is. You have an opinion, which if fine. Many think they have a fact, that is nothing more than an opinion.

 

[Phototone]

Well, I started ownership of vinyl and shellac records in the early 1950's. I have always purchased music on disc. Got into stereo as a child, got my first Stereo record in about 1959. I have never stopped listening to records, or buying new ones. Yes, I did adopt tape and CD as time went buy, but have never stopped my love for records.

 

[deeezy]

Basically fanboyism is killing this hobby for me. I only listen to turntables! You suck if you don't! I only listen to Sansui! You suck if you don't. I only listen to (x). You suck if you don't like (x).

Its bullshit. Its people being assholes and assholes kill fun.

And deezy, please don't think I'm calling you an asshole. The behavior I'm referring to is far more pointed than your opinion is. You have an opinion, which if fine. Many think they have a fact, that is nothing more than an opinion.

I know where you're coming from, although I've been called a lot worse than "asshole", so I wouldn't mind it if you did indeed call me that . I have noticed that there is a lot of specific brand/model fetishism on this site (Technics 1200, Marantz, Sansui, etc.). Personally, I buy all of my equipment from estate/garage sales, so I enjoy what God has seen fit to give me. I have had Sansui receivers, they're great. My current favorite is my Heatkit AR-15, which I bought for $5 and could damn near blow the roof off of my house.
Really, my only interaction with the audiophile set is on this site, and I am a relative newcomer. I keep coming on here because I find many of the discussions interesting.
But, I would suggest that you not let the attitudes of others determine your listening habits. I could care less what others think of my equipment; however, I find the discussions (like this one) interesting. I have learned a lot from audiophiles, snobbish, fanboyish, and otherwise. I've also been annoyed by some of the attitudes, even with those with whom I agree on the topic at hand. I am a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, and very often my fellow fans annoy the living crap out of me with their ignorant takes on sports; I know a Browns fan with whom I'd much rather discuss sports than many of the Steeler fans I know. However, this does not deter my fanhood.
So, please, keep digging whatever it is you dig; all of the other assholes and I will do the same. I am always open to the possibility of finding a digital playback option that I like; it just hasn't happened yet, and I'm not looking very hard. Anyway, rock on.

 

[Snoober]

I abandoned LPs in the 90s and then 'rediscovered' them fairly recently (largely thanks to Stereophile magazine). I bought a Pro-Ject Debut, listened to LPs, and I was thoroughly disappointed by the sound. In short, my hi-res digital downloads / CDs / DAC just sounded better. It would have been very easy for me to be turned off completely at this point, and I'm guessing that people just trying vinyl out may opt out at this stage.

Anyway, I've finally gotten to the point where the vinyl end of my system sounds nicer than the digital end. But it took a lot of expense, experimentation, research, frustration (and a record cleaning machine) to get there.

I have great admiration for folks who slap together a cheap vinyl front end and love the sound. I wish my road to vinyl happiness was that straightforward. Nowadays, a good DAC is a far easier alternative to the sometimes convoluted route to good vinyl sound, at least to me.