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High Definition Vinyl?

Sounds like it might be a very welcome technological evolution and if it makes for more consistent pressings that's all great. I can imagine benefits that don't need anything special, but If they try to push it in a direction where you "need" new special equipment that sounds "bad" to me, as part of the charm of the format is it's so ancient :)
 
One point that seems to be missing from the discussion is, We probably already have the equipment necessary to fully enjoy these disks. The guy with a Crosley suitcase will need to upgrade to notice the difference.
The fact that anyone is spending the coin to R&D this idea is fascinating to me. It's just not done unless someone thinks there's money to be made.
 
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Interesting, I remember discussing this sort of idea with people in the past. It really is the theoretical ideal way to 'create' a record - by using software to generate a topographical representation of audio data, where you're no longer dealing with 'audio' but a wireframe like any other CAD object. Ultimately what matters is the resolution of the laser etching, and if you already have a high resolution mesh of the surface you could use all sorts of different '3D printing' technologies to create the final product.
 
re capacity,

my understanding is that :- the room allowed for a groove to move, left to right, is where you get dynamic range from,
by cramming grooves closer together, do you limit dynamic range ?

re the marketing,

"HD" audio ?
like televisions, are we getting "full HD" in a few years, and "4K" audio after that ??
 
Why does it always have to be louder with more information. That means the Pop guys can amass more compressed signal with fewer dynamics and less realism more efficiently and faster. When they sound as good as Sheffield, Original Masters, I may give them a chance. Its not so much the process as it is the source material that determines the quality of the sound stamped on a vinyl disc. But isn't that true of any source material. be it digital or analog.
 
Interesting, I remember discussing this sort of idea with people in the past. It really is the theoretical ideal way to 'create' a record - by using software to generate a topographical representation of audio data, where you're no longer dealing with 'audio' but a wireframe like any other CAD object. Ultimately what matters is the resolution of the laser etching, and if you already have a high resolution mesh of the surface you could use all sorts of different '3D printing' technologies to create the final product.
Including the one that's been in use for the past several decades...
by cramming grooves closer together, do you limit dynamic range ?
Not necessarily...the overall volume can be reduced leaving the dynamics intact. Added benefit is lower tracing distortion...drawback is higher background noise levels.
 
I had this exact same conversation on facebook earlier. This is what I wrote.

"Imagine a vinyl record that has 30% more capacity, 30% greater volume, and double the audio fidelity of a typical LP sold today." Ummm, Didn't they say the same tired **** about CD's and look where they are now. Records been around for a long time, and ain't going no where. Oh an 30% louder, What is that about ? That's what caused most of the problems with CD to begin with.

True dat. I smelled something fishy with that article. I forwarded it to Fremer when it hit the news a few weeks back, so I bet he'll have some comment on it once he investigates. (And if they aren't forthcoming with information? Well, then...that rat we smell is a rat...in faux high-def clothing.)

Anyway, my own take on all this (which I've discussed privately among friends):

1. Their idea of "sculpting" the waveform to "optimize" it reeks of digital manipulation. How is digitizing an analog signal "high definition"? Granted music originally recorded digital is being cut to vinyl all the time (and even was, back in the late 70s). Yet do we need the signal even more manipulated? I think not.

2. Analog is the highest definition there is. Arguably, 45 RPM resolves a little better than 33-1/3, so there is that. (Same as a faster tape speed is capable of better sound.) But regardless, an analog signal is a pure waveform which has not been "decimated" (sampled for digital, or in other words, chopped into thousands of pieces each second).

2A. CX- and dbx-encoded records are not "higher def" records--they are noise-reduced records. And not very good sounding ones at that.

3. 30% more capacity means the grooves are packed tighter together. 30% greater volume means louder, which means the grooves need to be spaced further apart. See a problem yet? One is the inverse of the other; one can't do "more more more" of both. If by louder they mean "brickwalling the snot out of it," then that's even worse. And it doesn't even need a patent. I've seen a standard record cut with 35 minutes on one side--Harry Connick Jr.'s Lofty's Roach Souffle. It ain't pretty. It is cut at a really low volume. A lot of surface noise creeps in. Kind of a wonky listen.

4. Records aren't broken; don't fix them. The technology has worked since the days of cutting in wax and pressing in shellac. Aside from cutting all-analog and improving pressing plant quality, or perfecting the perfect-tracking tonearm, there isn't much left.

5. This whole "high def" vinyl thing seems like a marketing game. It's been slapped onto video and audio releases already. Hey! Let's do it to vinyl, too! Maybe it'll sell well among the hipsters and the clueless, but all of us who are into vinyl suspect this half-baked idea isn't what it seems.

6. I don't buy the whole "cost savings" thing. New technology is traditionally expensive. Not only that, if they expect some raging mass conversion to their "way" of doing it, who is going to pay to retrofit existing pressing plants? New plants are not magically going to pop up out of the ground because they invented this process either.

I'm looking forward to someone with real insider knowledge of the vinyl industry to find out what this is really all about, so we can stop guessing. I just don't see it being more than some fudging and marketing trickery going on...
 
Very well thought out response. I also look forward to hearing from someone who has either heard one, or atleast knows more then what the marketing department is spouting.

Grumpy
 
3. 30% more capacity means the grooves are packed tighter together. 30% greater volume means louder, which means the grooves need to be spaced further apart. See a problem yet? One is the inverse of the other; one can't do "more more more" of both.

I don't see much of an issue. Traditional cutting is just that - cutting; There's a lot of force exerted on the lacquer, and the stylus is heated which will further soften, or weaken, the lacquer. Every microscope shot I've seen of a record shows a rather thick wall between the grooves. If you can etch a substrate without exerting pressure on the material it's reasonable grooves could be laid with almost no excess wall at all. With the control of the geometry laser etching would have to have to create a successful groove, placement would be far more accurate than any read-ahead/cutting computer tech that is in use today.

...who is going to pay to retrofit existing pressing plants?

Doubtful there'd be an impact on presses - everything I've read indicates this is a new process for creating stampers.
 
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