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High end speaker wire

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While I respect Mr. Russells acomplishments, That article is somewhat dated. There have been many changes in this field, and I can hear the difference in wire easily. (Donning the fire retardant gear) Certainly just my personal opinion, but still remains to be the truth to me. BTW I have never spent big bucks on speaker cables, but my experimentation has been fairly extensive on the cheap and has shown significant differences between types of wire.
Regards,
Jim
 
Having tried 8 or different kinds of cable in my rig, I can tell you there is a difference. Most of them sounded more alike than different, some vastly different. I tried a $1800 pair of cables in my rig and am glad to say I still prefer my Goertz cable that cost me about a third of that.
 
Once you get over a certain price point....the subject of diminishing returns kicks in!?
Would you spent $2000+ on cables....to get a 2-3% (OK...maybe slightly more) improvement in your system?
I cannot....but then my pockets are not deep!

Steve
 
Lots of reviews by AK'ers in TOL attesting to the differences they have heard in cables.
 
Hello to all............

I have a question.......

If there is a notable difference between cables, how come in many blind test done so far, people tested ( even golden eared people) can never tell the difference, even when cloth hanger wire was used?

I am just curious......That is all.....and I tend to go with the facts....But I guess I am guilty too; I just spend 90 euros on 25 meters of silver wire.....:)
 
I designed a few cables under contract in my time that ended up as commercial products for two big cable market players. So I would like to think that I have a reasonable idea of the whole process from the design stage, all the way to the marketing. And of course I can find points to disagree about with my fellow cable designers.
What I can say, and one that you guys would be able to understand, is that the way the cable is wound or braided can make a huge difference to the frequency response of the cable. I use as an example the winding method of network cable. Notice how CAT5 cable has a wider bandwidth than CAT4, even when you use the same cable material. The same almost goes for USB1.0 and USB2.0. Then we have the construction of TV cable and satellite cable. They look the same at first glance, but performance wise they can be shown to be different.
With audio cables the frequency range is far smaller. So is the amplitude of the waveform. So measurements are harder to extract, and performance judgements are even more notoriously difficult to describe.
However, if you can accept that at computer and video frequencies cable performance can make a noticeable difference, then at audio frequency those types of differences cannot be dismissed as insane.
 
avionic said:
Has anyone ever looked inside there equipment to see what type and gauge the wires or conductors are that carry the amplified signal from the output device to the speaker jacks . And then looked inside there speakers at the type and gauge of wires going from the input jacks to the crossover to the drivers.Yep , I'm sure that those 2K+ wires sound better..:yes: :scratch2: If you say so...:deal:
Click to expand...

It's the length of the wire, that skinny 20 or 22ga wire is going what 6" to 2' inside your amp or speaker? Short length not much of problem long length big problem. Same principal applies to electrical service go out and look at the transformer on the pole compare the 8ga feeding the transformer to the 2ga or larger coming off of it. I used to use 18ga lamp cord for speaker wire the bought a roll of 12 OFC Monster Cable I noticed an immediate difference, much improved bass response and a generally fuller sound. That being said I feel you reach a point of diminishing returns, I refuse to pay more than $1 or so per foot lately I've been buying 12ga twisted pair cable from a buddy of mine that does car stereo installs he sells it to me for his cost .25 foot on a 1000' roll, he buys direct from the manufacturer tell me there isn't some crazy marking up going on the same wire from a wholesaler is .75 foot supposed to retail for 2.00 foot. If someone wants to and is able to pay $2000.00 for speaker cables more power to them it just ain't gonna be me.
 
The insulator can make a difference measurably. Took it upon myself to try a few different brands with varying gauges and winding topologies of a given length of 240cm about a month ago and they do measure differently. Audibly the difference was noticable. But it was just a difference on the high and low end of a decible or two. That's it. So small that moving your head an inch or opening a door had far more effect, and the connection at terminals was a substantial variable. If I was listening and went for a coffee and returned and the cables were changed, I'd never know in a million years. My small comparison was done with EJ Jordan drivers and dome tweeters. Just my findings for my own use, that's all.
 
avionic said:
Has anyone ever looked inside there equipment to see what type and gauge the wires or conductors are that carry the amplified signal from the output device to the speaker jacks . And then looked inside there speakers at the type and gauge of wires going from the input jacks to the crossover to the drivers.Yep , I'm sure that those 2K+ wires sound better..:yes: :scratch2: If you say so...:deal:
Click to expand...
I've tried $1800 cables in my rig before. Don't knock it till you try it.
 
Hey guys..Of course they sound better than say 12 gauge bulk monster cable . If they didn't that would really suck...
 
This thread has been moved from Equipment Reviews and Opinions, which is for hands-on reviews of specific pieces of gear. There's also been a lot of cleanup, meaning deleted posts.

TOL (Thinking Out Loud) is for hands-on reviews and serious theoretical discussions of controversial stuff like cables.

So, please take a look at the TOL rules, stay within them, and this thread can continue!
 
riverrat373 said:
Before spending big bucks on high end speaker wire, check out this site: www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm. This guy was director of acoustic research at McIntosh Labs. I think he is well qualified to speak on the subject!:D
Click to expand...

Now that we're here in TOL...

Roger Russell wrote that article a fairly long time ago. Since then, some things have happened that would indicate he changed his mind:

1. The launch of Tributaries cables by Gordon Gow Industries. Gordon Gow was Roger's boss at McIntosh.

2. The launch of Roger's own IDS speakers, in which he uses very high-end Cardas cables.

Speaking of IDS, they're interesting speakers, and they've got a demo room at the Fest (next weekend), so if you wanna know how well the Cardas cables work in them, come to the Embassy Suites at Livonia, MI, and hear for yourself!
 
ADVHamburg said:
If there is a notable difference between cables, how come in many blind test done so far, people tested ( even golden eared people) can never tell the difference, even when cloth hanger wire was used?
Click to expand...

I'd have to request that you provide proof that these tests ever actually occurred. I read this argument all the time, yet never once have I seen anything credible to back up the claim.
 
I've also tried expensive cables.

Well, they were expensive to me, that is. I could never justify spending over $15 - $20 a foot. To some, that's horribly expensive. To others, incredibly cheap.

I've gone through several system changes that involved different components that were more money than what it replaced and less money than what it replaced. Yep, you read that right - the change was not always a "price increase = upgrade" change.

And I have finally ended ended up with the perfect speaker wire for my system - Monster. I know they have a bad rep to some but... what can I do?

Now, I believe it's all about system matching. Once you find that combo, you're set. When I first tried the Monster, they sounded good but I wanted something more. So I tried other stuff which was good initially but I eventually discovered something "lacking" or there was something missing. Eventually going back to the monster stuff, I realized that my system could not do "everything" since there are many types of music* but what it does do, is impressive.

* Ever hear a pair of speakers that were GREAT on jazz but poor on rock? I have....

Anyway.... system matching. That includes interconnects, speaker wire, amp, speakers... and even the room!
 
All the less important if you just use headphones - even the room does not get in the way, but the shape of the inside of your head may be a factor :)
 
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