High end speaker wire

[stuartk]

Now that we're here in TOL...

Roger Russell wrote that article a fairly long time ago. Since then, some things have happened that would indicate he changed his mind:

1. The launch of Tributaries cables by Gordon Gow Industries. Gordon Gow was Roger's boss at McIntosh.

That may show that Gordon Gow has changed his mind, but doesn't show anything about Roger Russell's opinions.

2. The launch of Roger's own IDS speakers, in which he uses very high-end Cardas cables.

He has bowed to the reality of the marketplace. The Cardas wire can't hurt anything and does satisfy some potential customers.

He states this very clearly on his site.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#thetruth

I would hope that he would also build a pair without the Cardas wire, since there may be people who don't wish to provide any kind of support to George Cardas.

I count myself in that group, although I am hardly likely to purchase a pair of IDS-25 speakers either, partly because I disagree with the design, and partly because I didn't at all like their sound.

 

[wrat]

tried some stupid expensive Nordost once,did not keep it also tried wireworld atlantis did not keep it... I heard NO difference between the above and my radio shack solid core 18ga using four wrapped strands per terminal

 

[stuartk]

That may show that Gordon Gow has changed his mind, but doesn't show anything about Roger Russell's opinions.

Shows how much attention I pay to McIntosh stuff...

It appears that Gordon Gow hasn't changed his mind about anything at all in almost 20 years.

 

[chathamdad]

For years the speaker wire issue set off my snake-oil-alarm, but I decided one day to sink about $250 into a set of Mapleshade Double Helix wires to replace the Monster cable I had been using. Not only did I hear an immediate difference, my wife (who could normally care less about such things) also heard it. Clarity, imaging, definition, low bass, piano attacks, and everything else improved. I was so confounded I kept switching back and forth over several days and the results were always the same. So I'm convinced.

Now to start another riot: do speaker wires need to be "burned in"?

 

[Mr. Lin]

Now to start another riot: do speaker wires need to be "burned in"?

This is hotly debated. I don't know about speaker wire from first hand experience because I've only used Kimber's 4TC and set up a whole system at once, but I do know from first hand experience that interconnects change over time - a long time.

 

[sauuuuuce]

I'd have to request that you provide proof that these tests ever actually occurred. I read this argument all the time, yet never once have I seen anything credible to back up the claim.

One could say the same about the $2k+/ft cables.

For me it's a middle ground thing. Coat hangers are never going to be in my system EVER!!!!!!!!! but neither is a 10ft cable that cost more than my amp or my speakers. Not to say I wouldn't try one if I found them laying around at an estate sale for 10's of clams.........MAN! does that make me sound like as much of a cheap bastard as I think it does??????

 

[sauuuuuce]

This is hotly debated. I don't know about speaker wire from first hand experience because I've only used Kimber's 4TC and set up a whole system at once, but I do know from first hand experience that interconnects change over time - a long time.

I think we should house our systems in a vacuum. No way they would change over time then.

 

[Face]

It comes down to what sounds good in your rig.

Quoting retail prices, I have had $20, $40, $100, $150, $200, $1,100, and $1,600 cables in my rig.

IMO, the $1,100 set of cables sounded the best in my rig and I can't see myself changing them out anytime soon. Even better, I bought them used and paid half of retail. I'm glad the $1,600 cables didn't work out for me.

 

[Elfasto]

If there is a notable difference between cables, how come in many blind test done so far, people tested ( even golden eared people) can never tell the difference, even when cloth hanger wire was used?

I'd have to request that you provide proof that these tests ever actually occurred. I read this argument all the time, yet never once have I seen anything credible to back up the claim.

I would love to find anybody that would be willing to do such a test, especially with the ultra expensive cables vs. 12 ga primary wire for wiring trucks and trailers (which is what's inside my current speakers between the binding posts and the crossover).

 

[MudPuppy176]

If you pay an excessive amount it has to sound better. Otherwise you'd be a fool.

 

[cees]

Hello to all............

I have a question.......

If there is a notable difference between cables, how come in many blind test done so far, people tested ( even golden eared people) can never tell the difference, even when cloth hanger wire was used?

I am just curious......That is all.....and I tend to go with the facts....But I guess I am guilty too; I just spend 90 euros on 25 meters of silver wire.....

You are completly right.
There will be no difference to hear.
Look inside your AMP or CD / DVD player and you will see that the biggest wire is very small and there will not be any hi end wire in your devices. Look at measering devices. The use all the same kind of wire. So when you will measure a so called high end wire how on earth can you measure it when your use a device with normal wires.......There is non manufacturer wich is using special so cold hi end wires in his device. Look at a pc or a laptop.
All the manufacturers would win speed on there pc's however there is non manufacturer who uses high end wires in there pc or laptop. So why will it work on your speakers ? Look at car manufacturrs as mercedes, BMW, Rolls Royce. The use all the same type of wire. And on your system it will work ? No off course not. You dont hear the difference. Try it blind. Let some one elce change your wiring and then you will hear...... No difference. It is all based on marketing and suggestion. When you are reading a test of high end cables the reviewer gets the wiring as a sample at home from a manufacturer wich is advertising in his magazine. He is always alone and of course he will here the difference because the manufacturer is a big invester with advertisemnts in his magazine and when he will review it good the bugs are save and the sample is ofcourse for free.
No i'am sorry but i dont believe anything of the so cold high end wires but that is my opinion. When you will here the diffrence oke believe in it and spend your money on this hobby. I dont want to heart anyones feelings about this matter so for the second time it is my opinion and there will be a lot off people ho would thisagree with this. But search on the web of this matter and you will find out that objective electro engineers all say the same.

 

[stuartk]

You are completly right.
There will be no difference to hear.
No off course not. You dont hear the difference. Try it blind. Let some one elce change your wiring and then you will hear...... No difference. It is all based on marketing and suggestion. When you are reading a test of high end cables the reviewer gets the wiring as a sample at home from a manufacturer wich is advertising in his magazine. He is always alone and of course he will here the difference because the manufacturer is a big invester with advertisemnts in his magazine and when he will review it good the bugs are save and the sample is ofcourse for free.

I'm not a fancy wire fan. I also feel that a lot of subjective reviews are inaccurate.

However, I also don't think that all reviewers are morally bankrupt and are just saying product X is wonderful because they get some kind of direct financial incentive.

It's true that most reviewers would prefer that there be a lot of products on the market with a lot of people buying and selling them. It gives the reviewer things to write about. That's just an inbuilt bias that can't really be avoided. Reviewers, like other writers, also like to have an audience. That's also something that can't really be avoided. People need to put food on the table too, so there is a possibility that there is some financial incentive to keep the whole audio review process going.

It's a bit of a stretch to get from acknowledging that some bias is possible to saying that all reviewers and the whole process are corrupt; bought and paid for by the manufacturers.

You would require factual evidence that wire Z is better than wire X. Shouldn't you also require factual evidence that a given review is crooked, or present such evidence if you're going to baldly state that all reviewers are bent?

It's ok to be skeptical, and ok to question people's motivation for making a given statement, but I don't think it's ok to accuse a whole group of people without backing up your charges with some evidence.

 

[beans]

....There is non manufacturer wich is using special so cold hi end wires in his device. Look at a pc or a laptop.

Does your PC or laptop have a spelling checker?

 

[whoaru99]

I'd have to request that you provide proof that these tests ever actually occurred. I read this argument all the time, yet never once have I seen anything credible to back up the claim.

Here's one on power cables.

 

[Face]

You are completly right.
There will be no difference to hear.
Look inside your AMP or CD / DVD player and you will see that the biggest wire is very small and there will not be any hi end wire in your devices.

You obviously have never looked inside any high end gear.

 

[240sx4u]

^indeed^

The speaker outputs from the board in many high end car amps is 8ga to the speaker terminals.

Just because the jacket does not say "high end" does not mean that they didn't put any thought into what they used where. I have solid silver wire on the signal path of my dynaco MKIIIs sheathed in teflon tubing. It does not say or exude high end. Its just good wire.

Evan

Evan

 

[cees]

Does your PC or laptop have a spelling checker?

I' am sorry that my Englisch writing is not that good. I'am from the netherlands and my PC has no englisch spelling checker.

 

[cees]

^indeed^

The speaker outputs from the board in many high end car amps is 8ga to the speaker terminals.

Just because the jacket does not say "high end" does not mean that they didn't put any thought into what they used where. I have solid silver wire on the signal path of my dynaco MKIIIs sheathed in teflon tubing. It does not say or exude high end. Its just good wire.

Evan

Evan

Oke you are right. But need they high end cables to sound good ??

Statement; Why has no other device such as a wasmachine, microwave, LCD TV, Plasma TV, Vacuumcleaner, Your cable provider, Your energy supplier, Your lap top, Your digital camera, Your printer ...... high end cables ?
When for example so cold oxygen free copper wires are that good Why does your energy supplier dont use them ? If the energy transport is better the can make more affort of it.

However I dont want to make trouble about the use of high end cables. I only give mine opinion of it. Everybody ho want to use the high end cables have my blessing and I respect there choice. So I dont want to make onybody angry only think twice before you buy.

 

[Face]

Statement; Why has no other device such as a wasmachine, microwave, LCD TV, Plasma TV, Vacuumcleaner, Your cable provider, Your energy supplier, Your lap top, Your digital camera, Your printer ...... high end cables ?
When for example so cold oxygen free copper wires are that good Why does your energy supplier dont use them ? If the energy transport is better the can make more affort of it.

That has to be the funniest argument against high end cables that I've ever read.

However I dont want to make trouble about the use of high end cables. I only give mine opinion of it. Everybody ho want to use the high end cables have my blessing and I respect there choice. So I dont want to make onybody angry only think twice before you buy.

No ill feelings here. I have tried many types of cables in my rig. Some sound very alike, some sound very different, your mileage may vary though. Use whatever sounds best to you in YOUR rig. Cheers.

 

[whoaru99]

Statement; Why has no other device such as a wasmachine, microwave, LCD TV, Plasma TV, Vacuumcleaner, Your cable provider, Your energy supplier, Your lap top, Your digital camera, Your printer ...... high end cables ?
When for example so cold oxygen free copper wires are that good Why does your energy supplier dont use them ? If the energy transport is better the can make more affort of it.

That has to be the funniest argument against high end cables that I've ever read.

Well, yes, the vacuum cleaner may not be a good specific example.

However, the point can be taken to most any sort of laboratory and specialized testing equipment. Many of which are at least equally or more complex and resolving than audio equipment.