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How much wattage do you use, on average?

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ReactiveLoad said:
The FTC guidelines don't tell you anything useful about an amp. Nobody listens to root mean square power, and speakers don't have computers in them that calculate the root mean square of a complex signal and output that power level.
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Anyone who understands the specifications will know there is a significant difference between these two amplifiers:

Amp A: 2 watts RMS continuous @ 8 ohms @ 50-10kHz @ 10% THD

Amp B: 100 watts RMS continuous @ 8 ohms @ 20-20kHz @ 0.01% THD

I think most people who understand the specifications could choose the better amplifier based on that. The fact that one will not use the amplifier to generate power into a resister at a constant level is irrelevant to the fact that the specifications do contain useful information to those who understand their meaning. The specifications do not tell one everything about the amplifiers, but that does not mean that they tell one nothing at all.
 
Between the two stereo speakers I use a total of Appox 8 watts for my. preferred listening level which is about 90 db at a 16 ft listening distance. Its never about just the power, but the sensitivity of the speaker. If I were using Klipsch horns I would be hearing close to 100 db, if I were using Mac or Magico speakers about 84 db. Most pop records and digital recording only have 6to 8 db peaks, where jazz and classical the peaks and dynamics can be much higher with a lower average listening level. Of course there are always exceptions. Having Mac amps with Power Guard and meters gives you knowledge and a way to protect your valuable speakers... I never use more than a couple of watts with the super tweeters, but yet over the years MY Crown amps would destroy the diaphragms. I have never lost a diaphragm or any type using Mac amps when I upgraded in the 60's . I haven't lost any diaphragms or voice coils since returning to Mac in the 90's either. And the Macs have more power than the Crowns ever did.
 
ReactiveLoad said:
The FTC guidelines don't tell you anything useful about an amp. Nobody listens to root mean square power, and speakers don't have computers in them that calculate the root mean square of a complex signal and output that power level.
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Speakers don't need to "calculate" anything. Simply a standardized way of measuring amplifier output as a function of frequency range and distortion which is all the speakers (and the listener's ears) care about.
 
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Of all the many factors that are detrimental to performance, lack of clean & sufficient output capability has to be the least of worries in the majority of systems, yet few criteria get more attention. :rolleyes:
 
JoeESP9 said:
If I were to use a mechanical windup Gramophone with an acoustic horn I would be using no Watts.:rolleyes:
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Maybe not electrical watts, but the spring is storing and dissipating energy and that's ultimately the source of power. I'm sure there's some standard proportion of the spring's energy that gets translated into driving the diaphragm.
 
Last night I installed a dB meter app on my phone out of curiosity. It seemed relatively accurate. It said my room was about 19.5dB with no refrigerator running and no AC units outside going. As quiet as it ever gets. While listening it registered peaks of 77.3dB and the average being around 64dB. I obviously can't vouch for it's accuracy, but those numbers seemed in the ballpark. I do listen a little louder from time to time. If those numbers are accurate, my power requirements are less than I thought and my amps have about 30dB of headroom over my average, which would be inside a watt.

I was a little surprised. I thought I listened louder than that.
 
z-adamson said:
Bigger is better... Lots of headroom is a very good thing in my opinion. It's not about "using it all".....it's about having the clean power available for peaks. I am talking about "normal" class AB amps.
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130 wpc RMS works for me. I too play at lower volumes.

100 -120 wpc RMS is fine too.
 
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sqlsavior said:
"If the first tenth of a watt doesn't sound good, why would you want ten more of them?"
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Very true! That's the whole point of lower powered class A amps. It's practically impossible to get the kind of quality from a high power class AB amp that you find in low power class A amps inside the first watt. 99.9%+ of music isn't 15dB dynamic peaks, and if you get some higher order distortion in those peaks, it's not really problematic because human ears can't really tell the difference between high odd order distortion and legitimate dynamics. In contrast, a tremendous amount of low level detail is well inside the first watt. That's where deep resolution lives.

Moving to monoblocks has been a bit of a revelation. I don't think the improved channel separation has been that impressive, but having each 31 watt channel powered by it's own 600VA toroidal and 120,000uF of filtering has given the amps a new kind of power, punch, and resolution. More substantial power supplies is what bigger amps really buy you. It's not like it costs all that much more to build a larger class AB amp. Actual amplifier circuits are pretty cheap to build. I doubt any $5000 amp has more than about $400 in actual circuit components and boards. The vast majority of the expense is the chassis, heat solution, and the power supply. Good power supplies are very expensive. I think that's why some people think high power amps are better. I firmly believe putting an enormous power supply behind a simple, low power circuit is virtually impossible to beat.
 
ReactiveLoad said:
That's the whole point of lower powered class A amps. It's practically impossible to get the kind of quality from a high power class AB amp that you find in low power class A amps inside the first watt.
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Actually, that's the point of ALL high bias AB amps that remain class A for the first 5-10% of their rated output. Two examples are the Parasound JC-1+ and the Pass Labs X260.8. Both John Curl and Nelson Pass understand the concept.

ReactiveLoad said:
Moving to monoblocks has been a bit of a revelation. I don't think the improved channel separation has been that impressive, but having each 31 watt channel powered by it's own 600VA toroidal and 120,000uF of filtering has given the amps a new kind of power, punch, and resolution.
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On that we agree. I am firmly convinced of the value of stiff power supplies with providing a sense of "authority" and dynamic power. Yours have 35 joules each or about that of my preamp.
 
When I was building my system, I built it over a long period of time. Every now and then I upgraded certain pieces until I was satisfied with the finished results. When I was changing out the amps I found I loved the Pass Labs X250 (first iteration). My wife asked me to downsize and I did, but found I lost the excellent sound I came to love. Over time and trying many different amps I finally realized that the only way I was going to get that excellent sound back that I was missing was to get another X250. Just happened to be they improved upon the first model so I was able to get an even better sounding one in the X250.8 model. I was in heaven again. The wattage out never entered into the equation. I knew that this amp oozed heavenly beauty and I had to have it. This amp will put out 375 watts into each channel of my 6 ohm speakers, but I rarely listen to more than 10, with less than 1 being the usual level I listen at. A piece of heaven is expensive but well worth it.
 
The LEDs on the bedroom amp usually show .004watts for just radio listening but bump up a lot of the time to hit peaks of 100 when playing a good CD. Same speakers.

Rest of my rigs I use the power available, usually most of it as I have some serious sponges for speakers. Right now using Steve's Tympani IVa speakers, I have used different 25 watt tube amps, 55 wpc receiver (8-Ohm ratings) and a high current 330 or so watts into 4Ω that all did a fine job within their power envelop. I need the bigger amp for good listening, though. Part of the reason my tube amps are parked as they only have 50wpc.
 
Grenadeslio said:
Fig.6 McIntosh MC462 (8 ohm output), both channels driven, distortion (%) vs 1kHz continuous output power into 8 ohms.

View attachment 1852988
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That chart of the power does not appear to meet specs as the THD passes 0.005% at about 430 watts. Many companies might rate that amp at 400 wpc with that chart. And it is done at 1kHz not full frequency of the power specification. Hmmmm....
 
Blue Shadow said:
That chart of the power does not appear to meet specs as the THD passes 0.005% at about 430 watts. Many companies might rate that amp at 400 wpc with that chart. And it is done at 1kHz not full frequency of the power specification. Hmmmm....
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Not my amp, and not why I posted the graph, but it's interesting to note.
 
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