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Hpm 100

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I trust Ray when it comes to speakers. He has no axe to grind.

For those who have found that HPM 100s scratch that particular itch, here's what I've found messing around with my pair.

HPM 100s sound much better pointed straight out, rather than toed-in. Mine are also on 14" stands and NOT angled back. They are about 7' apart and about 2.5' from the back wall and away from any corners. For me, this is the perfect HPM 100 set up.

I have driven them with 35 wpc, 70 wpc, 105 wpc, and 200 wpc. I'd suggest at least 70 wpc if you want to open up their sound stage.

Ken
 
With all due respect WHAT THE HELL? Your reviewing a pair of speakers you admit aren't in proper working condition???? I don't remember anything in HPM-100 literature mentioning they came with Oval voice coils?

My most sincere apologies, but I can only listen to what I've got. If I had the chance to hear a pristine pair then I'd do that but I don't have that opportunity at the current time so I have to go with what I've got. Like I said, the rub was not audible with music. Yes, I have worked in a speaker manufacturing plant. Yes, I have sat in a soundproof booth at the end of the production line running sweep tests to detect FR anomolies like rubs and buzzes. No, this was not a major rub. Once again it was the best I could do with the materials at hand. If you want to send me a perfectly operational woofer to put in then I'll be happy to re-evaluate. I am not inclined to buy a new one at this time.

What condition are the cross overs?

Have you replaced any crossover parts

Operational but possibly out of spec. I haven't replaced anything. I thought maybe I'd listen before and after.

Have the L pads been cleaned?

Not cleaned but checked and they are smooth and continuous with no dropouts or scratchiness.

What kind of speaker wire are you using?

Generic 16ga bought from Recoton when they were selling out. The same wire I use for everything else.

How far a part were the speakers placed?

About 6' or so out to about 8' or so. I put them both inside and outside my main pair to try out both spacings.

How far off the floor and what type of stands if any are you using?

They are on the floor as they didn't come with stands. I had planned on putting them up 10-12" on the next listening test. Of course since my opinions are invalid I may skip the report on the next session.

What if any angles were used to "point the speakers"

Based on listening directly in front and off axis I decided to point them straight ahead so I was effectively off axis.

How far from the speakers is the listening position?

About 8 or 9'.

What is the size of the room?

About 12'x20'. One side is semi-open and the other has a french door and windows. The ceiling is open to a loft upstairs. It's the same room I listen to all my speakers in.

What is the construction and surface of the floor, walls, ceiling?

Carpet on the floor, standard drywall walls and ceiling which is vaulted. Construction is 2x6 on the outside wall and 2x4 on the interior.

Where are the speakers placed in relation to the walls of the room?

They are along the short wall on one end about 4' out from that wall.

Because all of the above is important and a factor in the sound you hear unless you are listening to the speakers as if they were huge headphones in which case they weren't designed to be listened to that way.

I was judging these in relation to my main speakers. They are in the same room with the same equipment, same speaker wire, same music, etc. The only thing that changed between the A and B were the speakers. My usual speakers somehow manage to sound pretty good (to me, of course) in this room with this equipment. I simply listened to the HPM's in the same place/same way. FWIW, I also have B&W DM2 MK2's and some Mirage M460's that sound pretty good in there. I have 4 sets of my speakers in there that sound pretty good. My personal favorites are the MTM TL's that I used as "B" in this test.

Once again, I'm glad that you like your speakers. I'm happy that you have eq'd your system to what is pleasing to you in your room. If I had a chance to hear it I would love to. However, I'm here in the middle of the continent with a pair of speakers that I picked up, fixed up within financial limits that I set, and listened to them just like I listen to all the other speakers around here. That's it. I may or may not redo the XO's. I haven't decided yet.


Ray
 
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Ok, the 100's are up and running.

...I don't like them much. They seem to have a hump in the bass and fall off quickly below that. They seem to have a very pronounced upper midrange/lower treble. They seem to have a big valley in between. Some observations on particular pieces:

-Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, Flight of the Cosmic Hippo: The incredibly cool bass line seems to come and go depending on note. When it gets below the HPM's bass hump it fades and when it agrees with the hump it jumps out at you.

-Dire Straits, Your Latest Trick: the trumpet and sax at the beginning sound like they're made of tin. They have no "body" to them. When the cymbals come in they really jump out and bite you but they sound kind of like a drum machine cymbal.

-Miles Davis, Freddy the Freeloader: see above on sax.

-Nora Jones, My Little Room: They make her voice seem extremely nasal.

Since they've been billed as great rock-n-roll speakers I put on Judas Priest, Turbo Lover and gave them some juice. I can see where they get the rock speaker rep. They go loud and sound pretty clear. That pronounced upper mid really cuts through anything and the bass hump matches up well with this style bass drum. I could see them as awesome party speakers. I can't, however, see them as my daily drivers.


Ray

Personally I agree. But if you guys like them, more power to ya!

:)
 
Sorry Ray didn't mean to offend it's just that it seams I am constantly reading reviews of these speakers with little if any real info on how the review was done.

I know for a lot of People the mere mention of adjusting a tone control is verboten and that a system should sound how they like with nothing adjusted. I on the other hand used to make gas money dragracing in the middle of the night by betting guys with bigger engines. My advantage was every little thing was done to adjust my car to the job at hand. I look at an audio system the same way.

It seams much cheaper to me to turn a couple knobs and have the resulting desired sound then buying speakers every other week hoping one pair will magically fit the system and room.

I've never said HPM-100's were the best speaker Only that my system in my room sounds very good with them as my speakers.

Now would Yamaha NS-1000's sound better don't know never heard a pair. Would they take less EQ to get the same sound results again don't know never tried. Would the end result sound about the same? Again don't know.

You and Zilch have all kinds of experience with speakers I don't I have experience with the few pair I have owned and the few pair I have listened to in a proper setting. And as far as I can tell HPM-100's are a good speaker. Perfect I guess not.

But I love to argue so expect to hear from me when this subject comes up.

And when I see you at the FEST I'll buy you the first beer.
 
It seams much cheaper to me to turn a couple knobs and have the resulting desired sound then buying speakers every other week hoping one pair will magically fit the system and room.

Fair enough. FWIW, I like the 3rd approach. Figure out what you like and design the speakers to fit it. :D

I've never said HPM-100's were the best speaker Only that my system in my room sounds very good with them as my speakers.

To reiterate, some day I would love to hear your setup. I don't doubt at all that you've got it tweaked out to sound great.

And when I see you at the FEST I'll buy you the first beer.

Sounds like a good deal to me. See you there!

Just to make sure anyone jumping in late understands, I didn't say and will never say that HPM-100's are bad speakers. That is for the end listener to decide for his/herself. They just aren't my cup of tea. I don't like them much but if you do I'll hoist a beverage to your happiness and listen to whatever tunes you're spinning.

Ray
 
Just to make sure anyone jumping in late understands, I didn't say and will never say that HPM-100's are bad speakers. That is for the end listener to decide for his/herself. They just aren't my cup of tea. I don't like them much but if you do I'll hoist a beverage to your happiness and listen to whatever tunes you're spinning.

Ray

Ray you old softy. :D
 
Ah, it's been okay so far. Everyones ears, rooms, systems, opinions, etc. are all different. If they weren't, we'd all be listening to the same things.
 
Ah, it's been okay so far. Everyones ears, rooms, systems, opinions, etc. are all different. If they weren't, we'd all be listening to the same things.


Im not sure about that, at some point JBL will run out of econowaveguides and we'll be forced to settle for something else. :p
 
I had a pair of HPM-100s for a few weeks.Tried them with various power,in various rooms,at different settings,and I found out a few things.These speakers change greatly depending on placement.Just a few inches can send the whole thing into sonic chaos.I loved the first Ted Nugent and first Boston albums through these,but Steely Dan and Diana Krall,it just never sounded very balanced to these ears.For the record,I wasnt ever that much of an L100 guy,either,so take my opinon with several grains of salt.Classic speakers,to be sure,but just not my thang.
Jimmy
 
Ok, the 100's are up and running. I've been listening a bit between them and my mains (MTM transmission lines of my design using 6.5" Peerless woofers and 1" Peerless soft domes). I've run them on the system I usually listen to which is an Oppo DV970HD playing into a NAD 7155 receiver. I've also played them with a JVC CDP into a Pioneer SX-980. All my listening was done with everything flat across the board as that's how I like things.

Please note, the following are my opinions and observations. If your opinions don't agree with mine, cool. See me at the Fest and we'll hoist a brew. If they do agree, cool. See me at the Fest etc. etc.

I don't like them much. They seem to have a hump in the bass and fall off quickly below that. They seem to have a very pronounced upper midrange/lower treble. They seem to have a big valley in between. Some observations on particular pieces:

-Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, Flight of the Cosmic Hippo: The incredibly cool bass line seems to come and go depending on note. When it gets below the HPM's bass hump it fades and when it agrees with the hump it jumps out at you.

-Dire Straits, Your Latest Trick: the trumpet and sax at the beginning sound like they're made of tin. They have no "body" to them. When the cymbals come in they really jump out and bite you but they sound kind of like a drum machine cymbal.

-Miles Davis, Freddy the Freeloader: see above on sax.

-Nora Jones, My Little Room: They make her voice seem extremely nasal.

Since they've been billed as great rock-n-roll speakers I put on Judas Priest, Turbo Lover and gave them some juice. I can see where they get the rock speaker rep. They go loud and sound pretty clear. That pronounced upper mid really cuts through anything and the bass hump matches up well with this style bass drum. I could see them as awesome party speakers. I can't, however, see them as my daily drivers.

Again, please note that these are only my opinions. I hope nobody has taken offense. My opinions do not transfer to the owners/proponents of HPM-100's. If you like them, I respect that and I'm glad you've found a speaker that honks your hooter.

Some time in the next few weeks I should be able to get the measurement gear set up and do some plots. Note also, I do not feel that measurements have anything to do with the "worthiness" of a speaker. I do feel that they can be a very helpful tool in figuring out what you like and how to get there.

Ray

Ray, thanks for the informative and articulate comments. They are very much appreciated. More or less your observations are what I found with the neighbors pair, especially in the bass department. I agree-if people like them great-stick with them by all means.
These, as my where-only personal and informative (if you so choose of course) observations. If one elects, they can use these to possibly improve them -or perhaps look else where- keep them the way they are and be satisfied, or take it personally, which gets no where fast.
Critical ( not critizing) observations of equipment are really helpful to us all, and I dare say that was a major part of why this particular formum was created.
Relax, and enjoy the information, in the end it's all good:music:!
 
[QUOTE=Mark W.;176252

I know for a lot of People the mere mention of adjusting a tone control is verboten and that a system should sound how they like with nothing adjusted.

It seams much cheaper to me to turn a couple knobs and have the resulting desired sound then buying speakers every other week hoping one pair will magically fit the system and room.


In my observations, a well designed speaker will play a wide variety of music types (hard rock, classical, etc)at all listenable volume levels (very high to soft) with little to no tweaking of the tone controls. Thus you only really need one pair to enjoy all your musical types. A great speaker (IMHO of course)is just that, not rock, classical, east coast/west coast. In essence it should sound like nothing-just music.
There is no 'sin' in tweaking the controls. Trying to acheive a overall flat response with eq/ etc is usually not practical, or possible, unless it's very small. They are usually best suited for poor source material (and really why tone/eq controls were put there in the first place). Aside from having a realisitic listening experience, is listening fatique.
In my experience, constantly having to fiddle with eq/tone always seems to bring listening fatique on after awhile, regardless of how it might sound at that moment. When that happens, I'm done for the evening, or what time it may be. And I think that in reality is the reasoning behind leaving the tone/eq flat.
Remeber a favorite concert or live performance?-you could have listen to for hours on end- that's how I know a great set of loudspeakers when I hear them, that feeling:music:!
 
I found that having tubes in the pre or all the way through filled in the valley that they seem to have in a response of, perhaps the upper mid-range. ( I don't have a way to measure except the ears I was born with). I don't find that they have the most completely natural sound (my AR2s/3s take that prize in at least my collection) but they just feel so..um...live? It's the only word I can think of. There is a dynamic there that isn't perhaps polite like my new england speakers, and I like it A LOT with certain types of music. I pull out my KLH model 6 for lighter classical on my tubes, but for live rock/pop/indie..these really deliver something that the New England sound has always left me cold on. Maybe it's just sheer dynamics.

I like them. I notice the things in them that seem to bother people, but to me no speaker actually sounds exactly like I'm there...and volume of air/SPL and loud to soft and back transients are just as important as frequency curves.

We should all re-read this post. He's dead-on, at least with my experience.

I recapped my HPM's, and still they aren't my daily drivers. They respond very differently to different amps. I noticed while they sounded blubbery and harsh on my 9090db, they were pure audio honey on my little Sony 7065A.

Try them on all different types of amps!
 
One thing I think nobody's mentioned...

We all age differently, and since I used to play in a rock band with a flagrant disregard for spl levels, I can't take HPM's for very long. My ears prefer a flatter sound. Methinks this has more to do with our favoritism than previously mentioned.

Just my two pence.
 
So what have we learned here;

A. The numbers stink.
B. They sound like ****.
C. You can, And need to tweak on them a little(Or alot)
D. It's a touchy issue
E. After owning 6 pairs of This'n That, There still the Rock'nest, Coolest looking, Durable, Abusable, Fun Loudspeaker around. Throw some power at them, And they'll do what ole Bart intended. Blast out some kick ass Classic Rock. And that, They do very well.:rockon:
 
So what have we learned here;

A. The numbers stink.
B. They sound like ****.
C. You can, And need to tweak on them a little(Or alot)
D. It's a touchy issue
E. After owning 6 pairs of This'n That, There still the Rock'nest, Coolest looking, Durable, Abusable, Fun Loudspeaker around. Throw some power at them, And they'll do what ole Bart intended. Blast out some kick ass Classic Rock. And that, They do very well.:rockon:

I agree for sure on item D. It's sad people take information/observations about equipment personally. Gets you no where fast. Equipment reviews, personal observations are all just information. Make it useful, or ignore it. I think all carefully thought out information/observations, particularly on this site, can be useful when taken into context, regardless if I agree, or not.
And in the end, equipment is just that, a means to a end. It's pretty useless with out the music.
Relax and enjoy what you got my friends:thmbsp:
 
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