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I Grossly Underpowered my Speakers . . .

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restorer-john said:
Well done? Not at all.

Although this thread has good intentions, it's also full to the brim with mis-information, basic errors and a complete lack of understanding of the methods and modes of driver failure in the face of excessive transient events.
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Totally agree. I stopped reading the OP after the fifth logical fallacy.

A few years ago, the esteemed Ken Kantor made a post here explaining clipping and why tweeters blow as a result. I’ll see if I can find it.

Edit: Found it

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-amplifier-clipping.549410/
 
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kirk57 said:
Totally agree. I stopped reading the OP after the fifth logical fallacy.

A few years ago, the esteemed Ken Kantor made a post here explaining clipping and why tweeters blow as a result. I’ll see if I can find it.
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kindly enlighten the OP ... he's certainly not above logical fallacy ... ;)
 
PPstereo said:
I hear ya man.

Its just all these dismissive remarks towards people professing how they blew speakers with over burdened amps.

Ill venture to guess 95% of everyone in this thread understands why and what they are talking about in these examples.

Turning things into a childish semantics argument about it really being operator error seems counter productive to me.
Especially when we all know damn well what everyone is trying to convey.

But whatever gets folks rocks off.



Couldnt agree more here. John makes his case in amazing ways. Very bright guy with loads of experience.


So in words of Waynes World

GAME ON!!!
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Let's not take ourselves too seriously, lest we be confused as videophiles!
 
damacman said:
Let's not take ourselves too seriously, lest we be confused as videophiles!
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Well that was the whole point of my rant there.

A little levity for those contributing to the discussion LOL.

On that notion just how much space (GB / TB) does 2 hrs of TRULY uncompressed 4k video really consume??? LOL

Im relishing in my sense of humor right now. Enjoying a youtube video of a Best of Phil Leotardo moments. Too funny.

 
kirk57 said:
Totally agree. I stopped reading the OP after the fifth logical fallacy.

A few years ago, the esteemed Ken Kantor made a post here explaining clipping and why tweeters blow as a result. I’ll see if I can find it.
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There is no mystery. They blow because they received too much power. Matters not clean or dirty, simply too much is what matters.
 
whoaru99 said:
They blow because they received too much power.
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Just asking, and not ironically or anything.

But could that not be said of all driver failure modes?

Thermal failure is due to too much power? Excursion is (regardless of loading?) is ultimately too much power? so on...

Happy to be shown wrong here. I really am just asking.
 
PPstereo said:
Just asking, and not ironically or anything.

But could that not be said of all driver failure modes?

Thermal failure is due to too much power? Excursion is (regardless of loading?) is ultimately too much power? so on...

Happy to be shown wrong here. I really am just asking.
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No, sometimes there is other forms of physical damage, the suspensions sag from extended periods in one orientation and the voice coil scrapes, then there is foam rot, magnet shift, etc.

But, certainly, overpowering is a big player in damage to drivers. Excursion is a bit trickier because you could damage it in an unloaded operation well below the actual thermal limits. As I understood the gist of the thread, however, it's primarily geared toward the thermal aspects.
 
whoaru99 said:
No, sometimes there is other forms of physical damage, the suspensions sag from extended periods in one orientation and the voice coil scrapes, then there is foam rot, magnet shift, etc.

But, certainly, overpowering is a big player in damage to drivers. Excursion is a bit trickier because you could damage it in an unloaded operation well below the actual thermal limits. As I understood the gist of the thread, however, it's primarily geared toward the thermal aspects.
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Gotcha.

But to narrow it to damage during active operational use. In general, overpowering is the "primary" means of damaging and or killing drivers? Fair to say? Minus grossly misused driver/enclosure scenarious...
 
PPstereo said:
Gotcha.

But to narrow it to damage during active operational use. In general, overpowering is the "primary" means of damaging and or killing drivers? Fair to say? Minus grossly misused driver/enclosure scenarious...
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You're trying to get/go somewhere. Where?
 
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whoaru99 said:
You're trying to get/go somewhere. Where?
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Haha I swear Im not trying to lead you or anyone anywhere other than some solid point to this all.

Im asking you as someone I get the feeling knows what he is talking about is all LOL.

I consider myself an expert on all things audio as much as I consider myself a masterful NFL player as a
5'10" guy who never played any sports his entire life and never watched any to boot LOL...

Just trying to get somewhere productive in this whole thread is all. Really!
 
Tony already knows my feelings on this, and when I seen the title of the post yesterday, I already knew what he was going to say. So I didn't bother to enter;)

I say we disagree, he knows it and I now it:p

Yes the main factor that will damage drivers is "Power"

Having a lot more power than the speaker needs is very much controllable by the user.

Having to little power than the speaker needs, puts a strain on the amp, and the amp can fail sending uncontrolled power to the speaker. This is not known when it can happen and will catch you off guard, but it's to late. You will not even hear this instant spike of power when the amp is failing

When you have more power than the speaker can take, you'll drive it into distortion that you can hear before any coil damage accrue. You have a warning to back off the power, of course if you keep pushing it, you can damage the speaker also.

Then the damage is because, one you can't hear, or, two your an idiot.
 
PPstereo said:
Im asking you as someone I get the feeling knows what he is talking about is all LOL.
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Yes he does, al be it not quiet being forth right. He is stating a speaker will fail with to much power, true, but he stops there.

Read my post in #97 because there is two ways a speaker can receive to much power, witch is why this is a long standing debate.
 
justjed2 said:
@BilboBaggins: Which version of The Carpet Crawlers? Didn't care for the remix about twenty years ago. I do like the live version on Seconds Out, that was actually the first Genesis song I heard, about 1977. But the original TLLDOB studio version is still the best. But it also requires listening to the rest of the album to give the song a bit of context. In my opinion.
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Agreed. I don't like the newer version either. I actually wore out my first version of the Lamb in my teens. Awesome album. There are many more songs that are great on it, but I like the Carpet Crawlers the best!

Wow, what did I miss? This thread was multiplying over night! :yikes:
 
4-2-7 said:
Having a lot more power than the speaker needs is very much controllable by the user.

Having to little power than the speaker needs, puts a strain on the amp, and the amp can fail sending uncontrolled power to the speaker. This is not known when it can happen and will catch you off guard, but it's to late. You will not even hear this instant spike of power when the amp is failing

When you have more power than the speaker can take, you'll drive it into distortion that you can hear before any coil damage accrue. You have a warning to back off the power, of course if you keep pushing it, you can damage the speaker also.

Then the damage is because, one you can't hear, or, two your an idiot.
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This sums up much of what I figured also.

Sitting around having a hair splitting discussion on what the origins of the power spike originate from has limited usefulness depending on those in the discussion overall.

Amps having a hissy fit for whatever the reason are bad for speakers period. Minus the over powering aspect mind you LOL
 
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