• Please note that Audiokarma will be offline briefly for updates early on Monday morning, September 28th.

I Recently Became An Audiophile.

I wonder how expensive it would be to build my own? Thats a thought*...

*distant pipedream
You could build your own or keep an eye out for tube consoles on FB, Craigslist, side of the road, thrift stores, etc. I occasionally see consoles for either a giveaway price or ridiculously overpriced. For the overpriced ones, I simply watch the ad and wait. One price cut after another until there is a "just get it out of here" price, or free. Magnavox, Fisher, Voice of Music, Stromberg Carlson, GE, Electrohome are some I have brought home over the years. Each amp has been restored and they all sound good to me! Last Magnavox I pulled the amp from was sitting in the middle of a field. The Electrohome (receiver) was a dumpster dive because "the smoke came out", but it was easily repaired. Might find a nice turntable in there too.
 

Attachments

  • MF.jpg
    MF.jpg
    61.2 KB · Views: 7
  • Electrohome.jpg
    Electrohome.jpg
    65.5 KB · Views: 7
Last edited:
You could build your own or keep an eye out for tube consoles on FB, Craigslist, side of the road, thrift stores, etc. I occasionally see consoles for either a giveaway price or ridiculously overpriced. For the overpriced ones, I simply watch the ad and wait. One price cut after another until there is a "just get it out of here" price, or free. Magnavox, Fisher, Voice of Music, Stromberg Carlson, GE, Electrohome are some I have brought home over the years, each amp has been restored and they all sound good to me! Last Magnavox I pulled the amp from was sitting in the middle of a field. The Electrohome (receiver) was a dumpster dive because "the smoke came out", but it was easily repaired. Might find a nice turntable in there too.
Good to know. I will go pick one up if I ever find one
 
I just recently became an audiophile a couple months ago, so I'm pretty new to the whole deal. What are the benefits of using a tube amplifier over a solid state or a digital amp?
None, although mileage varies based on subjective personal perceptions. You will get more bang for your buck with solid state though.
 
There are some sticky threads at the top of this forum that would be worthwhile to read through, such as "How Does A Tube Amp Work?", and some others. It's a bit of a steep curve at first but it will come together with time and rereading. Essentially, a vacuum tube is the equivalent of a transistor (or other way around really) though they have different operating conditions, but they play a similar role in a circuit.

Other resources are the very helpful website from Valve Wizard, and books such as Morgan Jones.
 
You could build your own or keep an eye out for tube consoles on FB, Craigslist, side of the road, thrift stores, etc. I occasionally see consoles for either a giveaway price or ridiculously overpriced. For the overpriced ones, I simply watch the ad and wait. One price cut after another until there is a "just get it out of here" price, or free. Magnavox, Fisher, Voice of Music, Stromberg Carlson, GE, Electrohome are some I have brought home over the years. Each amp has been restored and they all sound good to me! Last Magnavox I pulled the amp from was sitting in the middle of a field. The Electrohome (receiver) was a dumpster dive because "the smoke came out", but it was easily repaired. Might find a nice turntable in there too.
You can get vacuum tubes off of eBay for pretty cheap. Will the generic ones work?
 
You can power a speaker with a 60 watts max with a 300 watt amp and it won't hurt anything, provided you don't turn the volume to 11.

did that once. Didn't "turn" it to 11, but it went there by accident. Melted the voice coils bad enough that the woofers were seized to the magnets. Amp popped a fuse but suffered no other damage.

I said this elsewhere but the only times I've ever nuked a speaker has been from too much power, not insufficient. When it starts to sound like poo, turn it down. Thats really the big magic secret to not killing speakers.
 
Cheap ones are cheap for a reason, expensive ones are expensive for a reason, a working tube by definition will work. Best to start with an amp and go from there, but it's why I suggest PP EL84 or 6V6 and not PPP 300B.
You can get vacuum tubes off of eBay for pretty cheap. Will the generic ones work?
 
I prefer the ease of maintenance.

I can stock a selection of parts to rebuild most tube amps and I can do most service work without a schematic or manual. They're simple intuitive circuits that all work about the same. I like working on them so much that I built a few from scratch.


The sound is every bit as good as the best solid state or class d amps but if you need more than 50 watts you are going to need to pay up...

There's a simple elegance to a well executed tube audio system, which really does it for me. Some of my very best friends run solid state amps, and that's OK. Being in the field of tube electronics is just an attempt to do the things that make me happy. If tubes make you happy too, then you're in the right place. If something else makes you happy, then do that...
 
I prefer the ease of maintenance.

I can stock a selection of parts to rebuild most tube amps and I can do most service work without a schematic or manual. They're simple intuitive circuits that all work about the same. I like working on them so much that I built a few from scratch.


The sound is every bit as good as the best solid state or class d amps but if you need more than 50 watts you are going to need to pay up...

There's a simple elegance to a well executed tube audio system, which really does it for me. Some of my very best friends run solid state amps, and that's OK. Being in the field of tube electronics is just an attempt to do the things that make me happy. If tubes make you happy too, then you're in the right place. If something else makes you happy, then do that...
That’s fair enough. I’m not planning on buying a tube amp anytime soon, although I did ask for a price quote on the ST-70…
 
Oh ok. What is it then?
It's a vacuum thermionic emmissive one-way electron valve as a diode, an electrostatic linear control valve with a grid added as a control gate
In my opinion, there's no question that tubes do many things better than SS (though the same could be said in reverse). I have always found tube equipment to offer better transparency, a greater sense of realism and a closer connection to the performers and instruments. There's a bloom and sense of relaxation that most SS equipment doesn't offer. And I'm going to qualify that with a caution against power expectations. In my experience, reaching above 60wpc with a tube system can be tricky and subject to diminishing returns, which isn't to say that there aren't some very good 100+wpc tube amps. But that's when you really get into expense and maintainance, in my mind. To me a 30-40wpc tube system with suitably paired speakers can offer a tremendous amount of pleasure.

There is also an aesthetic element that many people find appealing. I'm more drawn to this:

View attachment 2984309

...than this:

View attachment 2984310

But I think there's something a bit deeper than that. Just as something of the musical-hobby experience was lost in the transition from vinyl to digital, something was lost in the transition from tubes to SS. There was a certain pride in the well-assembled, well-maintained tube system, as well as a connection to the reproduction process, in that recording equipment and playback equipment were synchronized to a large extent. Yes, you had to work a bit--fiddle with the bias now and then, refresh the tubes (though not as often as people nowadays think), tweak a bit, keep an eye on things. But reliability? You can find thousands of examples of tube amps, preamps and receivers that still work just fine, or will with a minimal amount of servicing. If it weren't for the somewhat fragile nature of those old electrolytic can caps, you'd be hard pressed to find an old Scott, Fisher, Heathkit or other tube piece that *didn't* still work.

A friend recently downsized and sent me her 25 year-old Jolida tube integrated amp to sell for her. The only thing wrong with it was the volume pot, which I replaced for $10. Otherwise it worked perfectly and measured beautifully. Conversely, I worked in a stereo shop years ago and the number of faulty NEW SS amps we had to repair kept the back room very busy. And replacement parts? With old SS stuff, good luck. With old tube stuff--a single trip to a web site like Antique Electronic Supply yields just about anything you need to bring a vintage tube amp back up to spec.

IMO, again, there's too much anecdotal evidence of people hearing their first tube system and being struck by the difference between tubes and SS to simply dismiss as "preference." Something is affecting the way people hear the music.

I've heard tube systems I would rate among the best systems I've ever heard. I can't think of a SS system that struck me the same way.
One of the most if not the most musically immersive amps I've used is a fairly modest but well-excecuted class 'D' dual mono chip amp. Transparent, vivid, detailed, and excellent soundstage, and at a modest $125 it's hard to justify what I've willingly spent on similarly powered tube amps.
YMMV.
 
You can get vacuum tubes off of eBay for pretty cheap. Will the generic ones work?

Many will "work" but like anything else, you get what you pay for.

Keep in mind, as far back as the mid-'70s, tube quality had been declining to the point that equipment could no longer make factory spec and tube manufacturers had little incentive to invest in technology that was fast becoming obsolete. Today, NOS tubes from the best manufacturers, produced during the peak of the tube era can command hundreds or even thousands of dollars in some cases. Therein lies the dilemma of using scarce parts whose life is finite. That's not to say that reasonably good performance cannot he obtained with a number of currently manufactured tubes, however even some of the these have become pricey due to current geopolitical conditions.

While it's often been said that tube equipment produces even-order harmonics which can be pleasing to the listener, it's also true that distortion has to be rather high (ie, 2 - 10%/+) before it becomes audible for most listeners. Most currently available hi fi equipment has THD specs well under 1% which raises the question of tangible benefits.

Having owned a number of very nice tube units including a pair of MC30s, MC240 amplifiers and an MX110Z tuner preamplifier, I completely understand and appreciate the visual joy of illuminated glassware. But in direct instantaneous A/B listening comparisons with high quality SS equipment from the same manufacturer, I soon found the sonic difference was negligible, if at all- contrary to my hopes and expectations.

None of this is intended to sway your equipment choices one way or another; simply to help make an informed decision with eyes wide open.
 
Here's my take. I love tubes, but given the supply and price of good tubes today, I've hung it up. I had a really nice tube setup, and others. I had an old Stereo 70. Unless the have really improved the input stage and the output transformers, I'd pass. Had a pair of Mark llls that were really good with a few simple mods. My buddy said they were "haunted" since he never heard one sound that good. Fresh set of GE 6550s, a recap and some modest mods, turned out nice. But even back then, good 6550s were expensive. Went to an Audioprism Debut ll with EL34s. Much less expensive tubes and more options. Unfortunately. Many came from Russia. I'm happily back to solid state.

The cheap Chinese amps out there on a budget are usually pretty compromised. Decent tube gear is going to cost some money. Invest in some solid state stuff, then visit some stores with tube gear. That realm is best entered with purpose and money.

If you want a more rolled off high end. There are speakers and amplifiers out there that can do that. Start there
 
Last edited:
Many will "work" but like anything else, you get what you pay for.

Keep in mind, as far back as the mid-'70s, tube quality had been declining to the point that equipment could no longer make factory spec and tube manufacturers had little incentive to invest in technology that was fast becoming obsolete. Today, NOS tubes from the best manufacturers, produced during the peak of the tube era can command hundreds or even thousands of dollars in some cases. Therein lies the dilemma of using scarce parts whose life is finite. That's not to say that reasonably good performance cannot he obtained with a number of currently manufactured tubes, however even some of the these have become pricey due to current geopolitical conditions.

While it's often been said that tube equipment produces even-order harmonics which can be pleasing to the listener, it's also true that distortion has to be rather high (ie, 2 - 10%/+) before it becomes audible for most listeners. Most currently available hi fi equipment has THD specs well under 1% which raises the question of tangible benefits.

Having owned a number of very nice tube units including a pair of MC30s, MC240 amplifiers and an MX110Z tuner preamplifier, I completely understand and appreciate the visual joy of illuminated glassware. But in direct instantaneous A/B listening comparisons with high quality SS equipment from the same manufacturer, I soon found the sonic difference was negligible, if at all- contrary to my hopes and expectations.

None of this is intended to sway your equipment choices one way or another; simply to help make an informed decision with eyes wide open.

Well, with McIntosh all bets are off, since they went to great lengths to maintain the classic "Mac" sound into the SS era. Compare a Dynaco ST70 to a Stereo 120 and you might not be as convinced. ;-) Similarly, moving from a Fisher 500 to one of their early SS receivers is a big step downward to my ears.
 
Last edited:
Well, with McIntosh all bets are off, since they went to great lengths to maintain the classic "Mac" sound into the SS era.

Well...not exactly. The only lengths Mc went to was reducing coloration to the lowest possible that existing technology allowed. However I do agree, if coloration is desired- pleasing or otherwise - it's probably better to look elsewhere.
 
Back
Top Bottom