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Is Rock and Roll Dead???

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halftime said:
"Even the greats has some rough early stuff."

I would argue just the opposite. Many of the "greats" aren't worth listening to after their first two or three albums.
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I would agree with this.

Record labels no longer pay for a bands career
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That ain't how it worked at all. Labels gave you a chance to pay them, not the other way around.
 
Today anybody with a DAW program and Internet connection can release an album to the whole world. If that's not exciting, what is? We no longer have some fat A&R guy's lumbering greedy mass between us and music.
 
eddantes said:
Careful...That comment does more harm to you than good. Muse is probably the biggest Rock outfit in the world at the moment, and they DO fit the mold of the great ones.

I saw them live in Toronto in 2010 - they wore me out - god damn they're a good band!
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Not really. My parents knew who Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles and the Stones were. Hell, they were on Ed Sullivan (OK, not Hendrix). The fact that I don't know about Muse, just reinforces the fact that rock doesn't dominate like it used to.

Then again, there ain't no Ed Sullivans either....

BTW, Muse does rock :thmbsp:
 
Andyman said:
BTW, Muse does rock :thmbsp:
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:) Glad you added that... I was about to say, that you just admitted that your parents were cooler than you are... The reason that rock doesn't dominate, is because Americans have chosen POP and it's up to the Brits (as usual) to make Rock cool again... Except that the Brits seem to have gone down the POP wormhole even harder than the Yanks these days... Jack White and the Black Keys are hopefully laying down the way for the next wave of Rockers and Rollers
 
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Andyman said:
Not really. My parents knew who Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles and the Stones were. Hell, they were on Ed Sullivan (OK, not Hendrix). The fact that I don't know about Muse, just reinforces the fact that rock doesn't dominate like it used to.

Then again, there ain't no Ed Sullivans either....

BTW, Muse does rock :thmbsp:
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My big band loving father really dug Jimi Hendrix, especially the Electric Ladyland LP that I spun on his portable Columbia record player.
His appreciation of the new music was undoubtedly a sign a very magical time of musical creativity and energy, not to put too fine a point on it.
 
eddantes said:
:) Glad you added that... I was about to say, that you just admitted that your parents were cooler than you are...
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Nah, it just goes with the whole discussion. Rock was a bigger media presence then than now. Rappers, pop divas, and even country stars get more run than newer, not my generations classic, rockers in the media these days.

BTW, my Dad loved it when I opened "Electric Ladyland" Christmas morning 1968..

"Jesus Christ, what the Hell is that???" or something to that effect...:lmao:
 
I don't think rock dominates quite like it used to. Things are more spread out now as there is more music, more genres, and more choices these days. However, that doesn't mean that rock is dead. Just looking at the Muse video eddantes posted shows that rock is still alive and well, both with the ridiculous and boisterous attitude and the crazy crowds.
 
" it's up to the Brits (as usual) to make Rock cool again..."

Yeah because the Beatles weren't pop at all.
 
Taowolf51 said:
I don't think rock dominates quite like it used to. Things are more spread out now as there is more music, more genres, and more choices these days. However, that doesn't mean that rock is dead. Just looking at the Muse video eddantes posted shows that rock is still alive and well, both with the ridiculous and boisterous attitude and the crazy crowds.
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Rock had bigtime media promoters like Bill Graham, Jerry Wientraub etc.
The last great promoters pushed a different musical form and tended to shoot one another, talk about boisterous:)
 
halftime said:
I have to admit I didn't know much about MUSE, but from the name I would have guessed they were some sort of goofy art rock Queen wannabes. Then I watched this pretentious introduction and I was proven correct:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I9QSbWU2X0
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Then I suppose we ought to Pink Floyd, Supertramp, King Crimson, Genesis and on and on to the list of "pretentious goofiness"...

Or maybe... That's what Rock n Roll showmanship is all about...
 
JohnVF said:
Nah, it's pretentious goofiness. But I like pretentious goofiness so ...
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Yeah "pretentious goofiness" done on purpose is damn entertaining (Devo, Talking Heads). MUSE however is some sort of bizarre misguided statement gone wrong.

I like this review of Muse's album Black Holes:

"What's most difficult of all to look past is that Black Holes was created in all earnestness by three dudes in Hot Topic shirts advancing a vision of rock music that operates on three fundamental assumptions: 1) distortion is always better than no distortion; 2) every measure of music should contain at least one drum fill; and 3) the future will be dominated by robots. Muse leave no room for compromise on these points. So for peace of mind, call them retro, because they can't reasonably consider such a vision inventive or resonant in 2K6. Can they?"

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/9168-black-holes-and-revelations/
 
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I went back and looked at the Top 40 Top 100 for 1969 and was struck by the diversity of the list. With today's micro marketing and niche broadcasting, one would be hard put to find a outlet as diverse as Top 40 radio was back then.

Beatles, Peter, Paul, and Mary, Stones, Archies, Motown, Elvis, Johnny Cash and more all on one radio format..

Rank Song Artist
1. Sugar, Sugar The Archies
2. Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In 5th Dimension
3. Honky Tonk Women The Rolling Stones
4. Come Together/Something The Beatles
5. Everyday People Sly &The Family Stone
6. Crimson And Clover Tommy James &The Shondells
7. I Can't Get Next To You The Temptations
8. Get Back The Beatles W/Billy Preston
9. Someday We'll Be Together Diana Ross &The Supremes
10. Dizzy Tommy Roe
11. Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye Steam
12. Leaving On A Jet Plane Peter, Paul And Mary
13. In The Year 2525 (Exordium &Terminus) Zager And Evans
14. Wedding Bell Blues 5th Dimension
15. Love Theme From "Romeo And Juliet" Henry Mancini
16. Hair The Cowsills
17. Wichita Lineman Glen Campbell
18. Sweet Caroline (Good Times Never Seemed So Good) Neil Diamond
19. Suspicious Minds Elvis Presley
20. Crystal Blue Persuasion Tommy James &The Shondells
21. Build Me Up Buttercup The Foundations
22. It's Your Thing Isley Brothers
23. Proud Mary Creedence Clearwater Revival
24. One Three Dog Night
25. Down On The Corner/Fortunate Son Creedence Clearwater Revival
26. Take A Letter Maria R. B. Greaves
27. Hot Fun In The Summertime Sly &The Family Stone
28. Get Together The Youngbloods
29. Too Busy Thinking About My Baby Marvin Gaye
30. I'll Never Fall In Love Again Tom Jones
31. Eli's Coming Three Dog Night
32. I'm Gonna Make You Love Me Diana Ross &The Supremes &The Temptations
33. A Boy Named Sue Johnny Cash
34. Spinning Wheel Blood, Sweat &Tears
35. Green River Creedence Clearwater Revival
36. Bad Moon Rising Creedence Clearwater Revival
37. Easy To Be Hard Three Dog Night
38. And When I Die Blood, Sweat &Tears
39. Good Morning Starshine Oliver
40. What Does It Take (To Win Your Love) Jr. Walker &The All Stars
41. In The Ghetto Elvis Presley
42. Baby It's You Smith
43. Hooked On A Feeling B.J. Thomas
44. Smile A Little Smile For Me Flying Machine
45. Holly Holy Neil Diamond
46. Can I Change My Mind Tyrone Davis
47. Touch Me The Doors
48. Backfield In Motion Mel And Tim
49. You've Made Me So Very Happy Blood, Sweat &Tears
50. Love (Can Make You Happy) Mercy
51. Jean Oliver
52. Time Of The Season The Zombies
53. Baby, I'm For Real The Originals
54. Soulful Strut Young-Holt Unlimited
55. My Cherie Amour Stevie Wonder
56. One The Strong Survive Jerry Butler
57. Traces Classics IV W/Dennis Yost
58. These Eyes The Guess Who
59. Grazing In The Grass Friends Of Distinction
60. Run Away Child, Running Wild The Temptations
61. Atlantis Donovan
62. Cloud Nine The Temptations
63. This Girl's In Love With You Dionne Warwick
64. Yester-Me, Yester-You, Yesterday Stevie Wonder
65. Indian Giver 1910 Fruitgum Co.
66. Baby, I Love You Andy Kim
67. Lay Lady Lay Bob Dylan
68. Baby, Baby Don't Cry Smokey Robinson &The Miracles
69. Little Woman Bobby Sherman
70. Worst That Could Happen Brooklyn Bridge
71. Galveston Glen Campbell
72. Going In Circles Friends Of Distinction
73. Put A Little Love In Your Heart Jackie Deshannon
74. This Magic Moment Jay &The Americans
75. I'd Wait A Million Years The Grass Roots
76. The Boxer Simon And Garfunkel
77. Gitarzan Ray Stevens
78. Color Him Father The Winstons
79. Mother Popcorn (You Got To Have A Mother For Me) (Part 1) James Brown
80. Time Is Tight Booker T. &The MG's
81. Twenty-Five Miles Edwin Starr
82. Cinnamon Derek
83. Tracy The Cuff Links
84. Everybody's Talkin' Nilsson
85. I've Gotta Be Me Sammy Davis, Jr.
86. Hurt So Bad The Lettermen
87. More Today Than Yesterday Spiral Starecase
88. The Chokin' Kind Joe Simon
89. Oh Happy Day The Edwin Hawkins Singers
90. The Ballad Of John And Yoko The Beatles
91. Ruby, Don't Take Your Love To Town Kenny Rogers &The First Edition
92. Going Up The Country Canned Heat
93. This Girl Is A Woman Now Gary Puckett &The Union Gap
94. Games People Play Joe South
95. Polk Salad Annie Tony Joe White
96. Son-Of-A Preacher Man Dusty Springfield
97. Oh, What A Night The Dells
98. My Whole World Ended (The Moment You Left Me) David Ruffin
99. That's The Way Love Is Marvin Gaye
100. Hang 'Em High Booker T. &The MG's
 
I've read through this thread and have actually had this discussion with friends a handful of times before. I'm probably closest in age and perspective to JohnVF, but to say rock music is dead is doing it a disservice.
I think that there are rock bands that can sell out large venues still. I think prior to their break up the White Stripes were the last true, new, rock band I can think of that could sell out Giant Stadium (to use a local barometer of popularity). I think that there are bands out there like the Black Keys, My Morning Jacket and Kings of Leon that are getting really close. If memory serves me, both Black Keys and Kings of Leon within the last 3 or 4 years both sold out Madison Square Garden.
That said, I think what Nirvana managed to do was make arena rock very uncool for a large swath of people who are now in their 30's and early 40's and it's had something of a ripple effect since then. Rock music went from being every kid in your math class having a denim REO Speedwagon jacket, to kids who are interested in rock music finding their own way, and looking to find new bands. The fact that in the 90's it was suddenly uncool to listen to "whatever's on the radio" meant that the radio went looking for whatever was next, and it found hip hop, country, dance music, and then relied on the classic rock format which still lives on. Rock fans were willing to exert a little more effort, which paired up quite nicely with the blossoming internet. So suddenly Nirvana fans who heard that they were inspired by the Raincoats but couldn't track down a Raincoats album in their local record store, could find a Raincoats album rather easily. Without too much of a stretch that led to Napster, an itunes and whatever, which gives you every band ever at your fingertips.
It also made it possible for anyone with a 4 track and some time to release an album. So where you used to have to spend quite a bit to get your music recorded, you could figure out how to slap together an album with a couple friends in your basement or garage, so the sheer number of bands exploded. I think that in the end the variety and accessibility of rock music has made it seem like it's not as popular, but as a genre I think it's just as strong, and for every Lynard Skynard that's not necessarily relevant, there's a Drive By Truckers picking up the slack.
I'm not sure my point is being made very well, but no, I don't think that rock is dead, I think it's just mutated.
 
HankScorpio said:
I've read through this thread and have actually had this discussion with friends a handful of times before. I'm probably closest in age and perspective to JohnVF, but to say rock music is dead is doing it a disservice.
I think that there are rock bands that can sell out large venues still. I think prior to their break up the White Stripes were the last true, new, rock band I can think of that could sell out Giant Stadium (to use a local barometer of popularity). I think that there are bands out there like the Black Keys, My Morning Jacket and Kings of Leon that are getting really close. If memory serves me, both Black Keys and Kings of Leon within the last 3 or 4 years both sold out Madison Square Garden.
That said, I think what Nirvana managed to do was make arena rock very uncool for a large swath of people who are now in their 30's and early 40's and it's had something of a ripple effect since then. Rock music went from being every kid in your math class having a denim REO Speedwagon jacket, to kids who are interested in rock music finding their own way, and looking to find new bands. The fact that in the 90's it was suddenly uncool to listen to "whatever's on the radio" meant that the radio went looking for whatever was next, and it found hip hop, country, dance music, and then relied on the classic rock format which still lives on. Rock fans were willing to exert a little more effort, which paired up quite nicely with the blossoming internet. So suddenly Nirvana fans who heard that they were inspired by the Raincoats but couldn't track down a Raincoats album in their local record store, could find a Raincoats album rather easily. Without too much of a stretch that led to Napster, an itunes and whatever, which gives you every band ever at your fingertips.
It also made it possible for anyone with a 4 track and some time to release an album. So where you used to have to spend quite a bit to get your music recorded, you could figure out how to slap together an album with a couple friends in your basement or garage, so the sheer number of bands exploded. I think that in the end the variety and accessibility of rock music has made it seem like it's not as popular, but as a genre I think it's just as strong, and for every Lynard Skynard that's not necessarily relevant, there's a Drive By Truckers picking up the slack.
I'm not sure my point is being made very well, but no, I don't think that rock is dead, I think it's just mutated.
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That's as good of a summation of what happened in the '90s/00's to rock music. It's hard to describe to somebody that grew up in the '70s how absolutely "uncool" that stuff was for a long time, to most of the kids making music, who grew into adults making music. It's not really the case anymore. If anything today, I find that the youth are less judgmental about genre and types of music than what I grew up with, and as I'm exposed to more people older than me, I would say, them too. Just for different music. So while the generation or two above me is protective of classic rock, my generation has its own music, and now today, this generation is mixing it all together in a big stew. You really started to see that, in the indie scene, in bands like Broken Social Scene on their Album "You forgot it in people", where every single track was almost from an entirely different genre. Yet somehow it held up. The hold post-modern thing in art, leaking into music. Recombine things into something new.

As far as all the comparisons to Top 40 radio...nobody young listens to that anymore. Rock may be alive but radio died a long time ago, probably the last straw was Clearchannel getting its payola hands all over it when it was all deregulated in the early/mid '90s. Overnight all the stations became the same crap. Kids don't carry around FM radios anymore. They carry around their 5000 favorite songs, and make their own stations.
 
JohnVF said:
As far as all the comparisons to Top 40 radio...nobody young listens to that anymore. Rock may be alive but radio died a long time ago, ... Kids don't carry around FM radios anymore. They carry around their 5000 favorite songs, and make their own stations.
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Oh, I totally agree. I was just using the list to illustrate what a diverse mix top 40 really was. You could hear The Beatles, Tommy Roe, and The Temptations all in a row. Since there weren't a lot of alternatives (8 tracks??? :yes:) you often had to settle for something you normally wouldn't listen to.

Hell, as teens we were always pushing those car radio buttons looking for something good. Up in Milwaukee, I had the locals WOKY and WRIT, plus WCFL and WLS out of Chicago until the "underground" stations like WZMF and WTOS popped up and we had to go to Olsen Electronics for those cheesy FM converters.

Back in the early 1980s when i lived in Chicago, I used to listen to a lot of WXRT as they were pretty eclectic. When I'm there now, I'm astounded that there are still some of the same DJs left damn near 30 years later :yikes:
 
Pearl Jam
AC/DC
U2
Dave Matthews Band
The Cure
Tool
These are a few bands that still can sell out a big venue, but as far as new bands that will last the test of time, I don't know, those days may be over. Sometimes I feel bad for the new generation, it really seems as though there will never be those music "scenes" again. I can remeber standing in line over night to get tickets to Judas Priest and Iron Maiden($13.50), now tickets all sell online and you don't even have a chance to get a ticket in hand as before. Sad indeed, but Im glad I got to have been a part of some things, even though it shows my age, good times. The movie Dazed and Confused comes to mind for some reason. Most of the new music I listen to is very small bands doing their own thing, making records with 500 pressed, things like that. Seems now all the good music is underground, at least compared to how it used to be.
 
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