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It's not just stereos that the kids don't want.

And how many of us applaud that recent article about how millennials are killing Applebees and Buffalo Wild Wings because those predictably bland at best shitty chains are garbage anyway?

I freakin love that about the millennials. That's one thing you have to give them. Total rejection of mass produced crap wherever possible. Lots of DiY spirit and a back to basics attitude. They despise racism and embrace change, (generally) Lots of them reaching their late 20's and early 30's now are developing some hipster douchbaggery, but that's to be expected at that age for everyone. Generally a good group with good values.
 
Not so much guarantee it, but stop pushing all of the "fluff" classes and degrees. Let's face it--in today's job market, an undergrad degree is a bare minimum to get a job in many industries. I agree about having the "fully rounded" education a college can provide but on the other hand, if so many jobs today didn't need a degree, we wouldn't need to attend college in the first place. This isn't the old days where you can go to college "just because." Nobody except the uber-rich can afford to go "just because." Today it's an investment in a career and job security, and colleges need to be providing the background for that. It does involve other skills the schools teach...but I think the "underwater basketweaving" example above is a good one. There is still too much fluff in courses and degrees.

My other half had to take three frickin' religion courses for her legal admin degree. Why? One reason, and one reason only--it's a Catholic college. They pocketed $8,100 ($900/cr.hr., three 3-credit classes) for throwing something at her that she has zero use for, and has no interest in. But no, it's a "requirement," and all it does is pad the school's pockets. Don't take the classes? You don't graduate. Nothing...nothing...she learned in any of those three classes even remotely pertained to her degree, or any of the jobs she has held post-degree. (On top of that, two of those classes really sucked.) The other courses in English comp, business classes, management, etc. were all something she has applied. It's **** like that which pisses me off about these schools.

When I got a degree a few years ago, my courses all pretty much pertained to my line of study, and the more advanced courses showed us how the skills we learned in the class applied to jobs out in the field. Then again, this school (a community college, no less) has some rather advanced thinking. They're not stuck in the old ways of some of these schools that peddle (and profit from) fluff courses and degrees.

Just being totally realistic here. I've been there--as a student, as the "other half" to a student, and soon, as a father. And we got hit hard in Michigan in 2009. For what these institutions demand in payment, the very least they can do is provide a good enough education, and preparation for the working world their "expensive piece of paper" supposedly provides...
Well I think education is a business in this country anyhow, like everything else is. In that light, they are just selling what the kids are buying. I don't think enough is being done before college to prepare kids for the future. Shouldn't there be mandatory credits to graduate HS in career options, and perhaps the concept of investing long term and how it can compound interest. Just half a credit in that one would go along way towards their retirement instead of them waiting till their mid 40's to even consider it..
 
It occurred to me reading this that in the 21st century we ought to have a gadget you can point at a resistor that will give you the stripe colors in text form. Took about two seconds to realize that should be a cell phone app. Googled 'color blindness app' and the first hit was "20 iPhone Apps for the Color Blind." :idea:
Damn! I was hoping you had come up with the multi-million dollar idea.
 
What I find backwards is that you can go to school for 4 or 5 years and come out with a degree in engineering, and have never laid a foot on a job site and think you can design real world products. Yet to become an electrician you have to work as an apprentice for quite a number of years and then take a test before becoming an electrician. One would think prior to becoming an engineer they would need some real world experience. It is amazing the crap these engineers try to push out for me to build, if I built it to specs most of them would never work. Yet somewhere behind those doors there are a few who know what they are doing as after a million meetings they finally come out with the info to make it work.
These are my sentiments exactly. Prints almost never work and an outrageous amount of time is spent combing over them, figuring it out, and coming up with a solution. And...It seems to be getting worse. Sometimes I wonder what in the hell are these guys getting paid for? Every electrical print I've seen also has a printed disclaimer on it that puts the responsibility and liability on the installer.

I do respect engineers, and I'm sure there are some great ones, but our joke at work is: "Give them a choo-choo hat and tell them to go away."
 
When I started teaching the first year apprentices in my local (Boilermakers Local 1, Chicago) one of the apprentices had recently graduated the University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign with an engineering degree. Needless to say he was sharp as a whip and not long after finishing his apprenticeship, armed with both first rate theoretical and practical educations and a knowledge of how the hands think and respond, he was running work for Combustion Engineering. And running it well.
 
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I freakin love that about the millennials. That's one thing you have to give them. Total rejection of mass produced crap wherever possible. Lots of DiY spirit and a back to basics attitude...

Back to basics? Yep, sure. Take away their stupid phones, ipads and internet connection and their "DIY spirit" is gone. They have NO idea. They didn't just watch and listen to a master craftsman and learn. They didn't read any books on the subject they are going to become expert on. I guess they hope to learn by osmosis?

They can't make or do chit. It's funny to watch. I see young men taking their bikes to the bikestore to get a tube replaced, they call the breakdown service to change a tire and if their lawnmower won't start- they buy a new one!

Here's the process for a millenial's DIY project:

Step 1: Ask Google.
Step 2: Copy someone else's project.
Step 3: Feel proud they bodged up something that looks like crap and hardly works.
Step 4: Do a 'maker' video and upload it for others to 'like' and copy.

Bahahaha. :)
 
Back to basics? Yep, sure. Take away their stupid phones, ipads and internet connection and their "DIY spirit" is gone. They have NO idea. They didn't just watch and listen to a master craftsman and learn. They didn't read any books on the subject they are going to become expert on. I guess they hope to learn by osmosis?

They can't make or do chit. It's funny to watch. I see young men taking their bikes to the bikestore to get a tube replaced, they call the breakdown service to change a tire and if their lawnmower won't start- they buy a new one!

Here's the process for a millenial's DIY project:

Step 1: Ask Google.
Step 2: Copy someone else's project.
Step 3: Feel proud they bodged up something that looks like crap and hardly works.
Step 4: Do a 'maker' video and upload it for others to 'like' and copy.

Bahahaha. :)
I lead a team, mostly millennials. They are fantastic. They communicate a bit differently than their elders, dress a bit differently and they lack experience, but they are dedicated, hard-working, and responsible. Most impressively, their ability to collaborate and work as a team is far beyond any other team I've seen in my career. I wouldn't trade them for twice as many old farts griping about the way things are and pining for the old days while they ease into in-house retirement because learning new stuff is too hard.
 
Back to basics? Yep, sure. Take away their stupid phones, ipads and internet connection and their "DIY spirit" is gone. They have NO idea. They didn't just watch and listen to a master craftsman and learn. They didn't read any books on the subject they are going to become expert on. I guess they hope to learn by osmosis?

They can't make or do chit. It's funny to watch. I see young men taking their bikes to the bikestore to get a tube replaced, they call the breakdown service to change a tire and if their lawnmower won't start- they buy a new one!

Here's the process for a millenial's DIY project:

Step 1: Ask Google.
Step 2: Copy someone else's project.
Step 3: Feel proud they bodged up something that looks like crap and hardly works.
Step 4: Do a 'maker' video and upload it for others to 'like' and copy.

Bahahaha. :)
I learned how to build a computer just about solely off of YouTube videos that's still working fine 3 years later. Same thing with refoaming speakers; getting on 10 pairs done now in just a year. I'm not the only one of my generation who uses the vast wealth of knowledge on the Internet to learn how to actually do things right. Experts and people who know what they're talking about can be found online for free (there's a certain amount of sifting that must be done of course). Visual and auditory learning are legitimate ways to learn. Not everyone learns best from reading words off a page or from 2d diagrams.

Even if one copies someone else's project, it's still DIY as in they did it themselves. I'm pretty sure that's pretty much the entire point of HGTV and DIY network...

Also, if it doesn't come out all that great the first time or so, practice makes perfect as they say.

As with all generations, not everyone has the drive, ability, and/or the time to do everything themselves.
 
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My situation is similar to a lot of guys on this chat line, Never married until I was in my Fifties. No kids, my wife has 3 young boy grandkids, who have never come down here to visit. That girl, LA's daughter, lives in Manchester, Ne, N, but they never got along.

Heck when I turned fifty I was having a beer with both my boys legally in a bar. Really weird day.
 
I learned how to build a computer just about solely off of YouTube videos that's still working fine 3 years later. Same thing with refoaming speakers; getting on 10 pairs done now in just a year. I'm not the only one of my generation who uses the vast wealth of knowledge on the Internet to learn how to actually do things right. Experts and people who know what they're talking about can be found online for free (there's a certain amount of sifting that must be done of course). Visual and auditory learning are legitimate ways to learn. Not everyone learns best from reading words off a page or from 2d diagrams.

Even if one copies someone else's project, it's still DIY as in they did it themselves. I'm pretty sure that's pretty much the entire point of HGTV and DIY network...

Also, if it doesn't come out all that great the first time or so, practice makes perfect as they say.

As with all generations, not everyone has the drive, ability, and/or the time to do everything themselves.
This boomer would never have been able to properly remove and replace the ignition in my Pickups steering column without You tube. That goes for several other automotive issues I have tackled recently.
 
Well this raises the question of the purpose of a college education--is it about learning for it's own sake and training in true professions--law, medicine and teaching come to mind--or is it just to be white collar vocational school?


IMO, colleges are not vocational technical schools.

I think that vocational technical schools are great. I think that being a plumber, electrician, etc. are honorable jobs, and many young people would do well to pursue such vocations.

At the same time, I think that education in the basics (e.g., mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology, etc.) can prepare a person to subsequently learn the specific knowledge needed for a job role. IME, most job-specific knowledge and skills are learned on-the-job, not in a school.

And, I believe that colleges (particularly liberal arts colleges) are about preparing people to lead a rich life – not just about preparing for a job. I think that courses in music appreciation, art, literature, philosophy, history, etc. are worthwhile for someone who has the inclination and funds to seek a broad education. IME, it can be enjoyable to have a conversation with a musician or philosopher, as well as an electrician. Clearly a person doesn’t need a college degree to be well educated – or to be an interesting person – but for many people a college education can help them broaden their perspective on life, as well as learning basic skills.

I worked my way through college, and earned a degree in mathematics, with a minor in philosophy. I’ve suffered my share of injustices, indignities, etc. during my work career (including being laid off twice during the “great recession”), but I persevered and eventually retired. I believe that my training in mathematics and critical thinking helped me to handle countless challenges during my work career – even though I seldom applied specific knowledge that I learned at university. For example, I never applied calculus during my work career – but when PCs were introduced I was able to quickly master spreadsheets, which proved to be an extremely useful skill in business, and in planning my personal investments (which equipped me to retire). Training in logic helped prepare me to write the technical content of IT contracts (without which many technicians wouldn’t have work). And, believe it or not, concepts from philosophy (such as reductio ad absurdum) proved to be useful in business.

What does this have to do with audio karma? Don’t we need people who can design new types of circuits, in addition to people who are electronic repair technicians? And, isn’t our hobby largely about the art - i.e., the music? Isn’t the market for hi-fi equipment (and associated professional services) larger because consumers appreciate many different types of music, and doesn’t an education in humanities help people to appreciate different forms of art? I like classical music and opera, and listening in my home via vintage tube amps, and as a result I’ve spent a lot of money paying for the services of hi-fi technicians. I’ve also helped musicians and artists make a living, by being a patron of the arts (i.e., attending symphonies and opera, and buying original artwork).

It benefits us all for young people to have a broad education. We gain a new generation of customers for our products and services. We gain a new generation of people who have the skills to bring useful new products and services to a complex global marketplace. And, we gain a new generation of people to have interesting conversations with. And, in our declining years, we have a new generation of well-educated people to “take the reins”.

I hope my nieces and nephews want to inherit my hi-fi stuff (and my brown furniture). If not, c’est la vie. At least at some point in their life they’ve each sat on a leather sofa and listened to classical music and opera played on a tube amp (and my goal is for them all to attend a live classical performance), and I am hopeful that has broadened their perspective on life.
 
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I promised myself as I aged (now 64) that I was NOT going to complain about the younger generation(s). And I'm not. They live in a different world when I was 20 years old, and yet a different world still when I was 40. Twenty-four years later, today, the world is a different place again. Every generation is born into a different world, and they have their unique trials and tribulations and triumphs in that world at those ages. Of course their behaviors, choices and more are going to be formed and shaped by the world they are born and grow up in. They HAVE to be different... to survive. My independent, grown adult children have amazed me at the way they have carved out thriving lives and gotten there in ways very different than I would have thought... or given as advice. It really is quite unreasonable for us to expect our children to live in the world as we did/do. Thinking that OUR way is the BEST way... nope I ain't gonna do that. My hat goes off to the younger generations.

My two cents....
 
Every generation is born into a different world, and they have their unique trials and tribulations and triumphs in that world at those ages

Wise words and reality.
My grandson is just 5. He picks up Ipad and tuns in what he wants. I phones same. Been doing this for bout two years. Sounds simple I know but at 5 I was taking things apart to see how they worked. Cars with friction wheels things like that. The lad counts and is reading a little. Starts Kindergarten after summer.
Many kids his age are like this. Its stunning.
 
I remember growing up in elementary school during the mid-sixties and hearing that knowledge is power, I have learned that acquiring knowledge is power because it's what you do with the knowledge. It's the consideration of what is actually happening around us and not what we prefer to happen that the young are having the most problems with. They were promised a wonderful life by way of higher education by educators that did not understand the scope of how differently people learn. Some people aren't supposed to be stuck in a building year after year. As a youth that grew up with an attention learning deficit as I was no good with math but more than excelled in reading and writing which gives a person the access to great amounts of knowledge. Trade and vocational schools are what is missing in public education and the reason why gangs have been prevalent in low income neighborhoods. It's just simple economics, if you want to eat you have to have money in your pocket. Then our lives are the choices we have. The problem with this is the people that thought that others learning a skill was not their problem so the vocational schools we had disappeared in the early eighties due to government intervention. The obvious result has been in increase in the prison population with the inclusion of cannabis aficionados. Choices are based on understanding the environment in which we live and not just believing in things that are told us. If we hear the same thing over and over for some reason there may be more than one reason why it's being said. I myself grew up in a time period when the older men reinforced skills that were passed down from generation to generation and for my family it was mechanics and woodworking. I was a wiz as a mechanic from a young age and it served me well even if I do have rheumatoid arthritis. But it's true, young people are not learning skills and just looking for a joby-job cause they can't go to college and most their parents can't help them because the situation is too far out the box for their parents to grasp and deal with, so you have young people living at home with their parents as adults while all of them are just trying to deal with life....and inflation!!! It's a shame though, I had believed that this county was about we the people, for the people and by the people.....
 
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Wise words and reality.
My grandson is just 5. He picks up Ipad and tuns in what he wants. I phones same. Been doing this for bout two years. Sounds simple I know but at 5 I was taking things apart to see how they worked. Cars with friction wheels things like that. The lad counts and is reading a little. Starts Kindergarten after summer.
Many kids his age are like this. Its stunning.

Back to basics? Yep, sure. Take away their stupid phones, ipads and internet connection and their "DIY spirit" is gone. They have NO idea. They didn't just watch and listen to a master craftsman and learn. They didn't read any books on the subject they are going to become expert on. I guess they hope to learn by osmosis?

They can't make or do chit. It's funny to watch. I see young men taking their bikes to the bikestore to get a tube replaced, they call the breakdown service to change a tire and if their lawnmower won't start- they buy a new one!

Here's the process for a millenial's DIY project:

Step 1: Ask Google.
Step 2: Copy someone else's project.
Step 3: Feel proud they bodged up something that looks like crap and hardly works.
Step 4: Do a 'maker' video and upload it for others to 'like' and copy.

Bahahaha. :)

If you guys shake your fists at clouds any harder, they're going to fall off.
 
I lead a team, mostly millennials. They are fantastic. They communicate a bit differently than their elders, dress a bit differently and they lack experience, but they are dedicated, hard-working, and responsible. Most impressively, their ability to collaborate and work as a team is far beyond any other team I've seen in my career. I wouldn't trade them for twice as many old farts griping about the way things are and pining for the old days while they ease into in-house retirement because learning new stuff is too hard.
Quoted for truth.

I teach (mostly) millennials at university level. Whilst others point out the differences between millennials and us old farts, I note that almost exactly the same percentage of them are hard-working and capable as there were among my colleagues as when I was a university student in the mid 1980's. The difference, if any, is that far fewer of my students are engaged in the single-minded pursuit of wine (or beer), women and song that characterised my youth. Millennials tend not to be the partiers that we were, and they're sometimes called "generation sensible" for good reason.

In fact, they seem to be turning into the young adults that our parents always wanted us to be.

Despite that, there are a small number of my old-fart colleagues who are quick to pick out the exceptions -- the handful of ill-prepared, fragile, flighty, whiney, helicopter-parented, over-dependent "snowflakes" among the millennial bunch -- and claim that they're all like that.

They're not. They're absolutely not. They're mostly good people, and the future is in good hands.

The thing is, there were always a handful of ill-prepared, fragile, flighty, whiney, helicopter-parented, over-dependent "snowflakes" around, but somehow it seems easy for some of us old farts to forget they were among our peers too (and still are!) and erroneously believe they're unique to a younger generation.
 
What does this have to do with audio karma? Don’t we need people who can design new types of circuits, in addition to people who are electronic repair technicians?

Refer back several pages to the point that someone made about this being a throw away society now. Not many people bother to get modern equipment fixed. Why? Two reasons. Not enough people are trained in how to fix them, and the equipment from the get go was never designed to be serviced. It is so miniaturized now and the way it is manufactured pretty much prevents the average service tech to be able to fix it. The tools that you need to replace the tiny surface mount components on a circuit board are so specialized and expensive, never mind the difficulty in even attempting a repair. Components are rarely replaced on a board anymore, they replace the whole board! And that's even when you can get the parts. Yes, there are people out there that attempt it...there is a niche market for repairing older iPhones, iPods, and such, but that is a fringe element and not the norm. This is why its easier to just "throw away" the old broken one and buy a new one these days. The manufacturers and design engineers have done this by design now. Ask a kid today if they are interested in electronics. Most will say yes. Then ask them if they understand how it works or how to fix it, they will look at you like you have three heads. "Fix it? Why would you fix it when you can get another one so cheap?"
 
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