Klipsch Modifications

[mboxler]

Interesting ... I never had the idea to experiment this tip !

That said, my modified E-2 did not showed that issue... Maybe the mod cancelled it ?

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T

The T2A is an inductor, and the effective inductance depends on the output taps used. In the case of a stock E2, the effective inductance is 11.4mh since the tweeter circuit is attached to taps 0 - 3. When a resistor is attached to taps 0 - 5, then the effective inductance is 46.6mh (the entire T2A's inductance). That value is so large that it hardly affects the squawker phase.

M

 

[ClaudeJ1]

A measurement of my Heresy 1.5's showed a suspicius dip between 700hz and 1400hz. It dawned on me that with the E2 the woofer to squawker circuits are in phase, even though they are both second order. I switched the polarity of the woofer, and the dip disappeared. This is an easy mod for those with E2's wired per the schematic.

Mike

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Or you could have done what Klipsch did, which is reverse the polarity of the mid and tweet while leaving the woofer alone. Tomato or Tomahto as a pronunciation. Would it measure the same under the identical mike placement? Precision and repeatability is important.

 

[mboxler]

Or you could have done what Klipsch did, which is reverse the polarity of the mid and tweet while leaving the woofer alone. Tomato or Tomahto as a pronunciation. Would it measure the same under the identical mike placement? Precision and repeatability is important.

Klipsch did not reverse the polarity of the mid.

Edit: Are you saying that after some period of time Klipsch changed the E2 schematic? If so, I stand corrected. I never got that memo

 

[tubelectron]

OK @mboxler : I note it - for the curiosity, I'll try to reverse the polarity of the K22K to hear how it sounds.

Strangely, nobody here seems to complain about the extra level (circa +8dB) of sensivity about the K77M and K53K over the K22K, making the stock Heresy barking in the mid-treble region, reason why I added my simple correction to the E2 Xover...

T

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Klipsch did not reverse the polarity of the mid.

Edit: Are you saying that after some period of time Klipsch changed the E2 schematic? If so, I stand corrected. I never got that memo

They did on the E network, so worth a try considering that worked for them.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

OK @mboxler : I note it - for the curiosity, I'll try to reverse the polarity of the K22K to hear how it sounds.

Strangely, nobody here seems to complain about the extra level (circa +8dB) of sensivity about the K77M and K53K over the K22K, making the stock Heresy barking in the mid-treble region, reason why I added my simple correction to the E2 Xover...

T

Yes, the MAIN reason why I only did my Super Heresy Mod for all Pre-1980 Heresy Ones, which could have had C, D, or E networks as the simpler and best of the bunch, so easily modded without all this BS from the derivatives.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Klipsch did not reverse the polarity of the mid.

Edit: Are you saying that after some period of time Klipsch changed the E2 schematic? If so, I stand corrected. I never got that memo

According to then President, Bob Moers (1976), the HERESY is what saved the Klipsch and Associates company. The gross sales were over 50% of the take. Not many people wanted Khorn, and still don't. Subsequently, Gary Gillum came up the the KG squared (the Xover was designed by Ed Wolfrum of Detroit), which then went to the rest of the KG series. In other words, Klipsch made more and more of their money on small speakers! DUH.

The Boxe Crowd still thinks a Heresy is HUGE after their high distortion "sugar cubes" sold to the tin eared market.

Since it's alway sold well, it went through some evolutions and even made it to Pro Theater and PA level with all kinds of Xover and driver changes.

So, don't be surprised by all this. They never sent a memo to us.

 

[mboxler]

OK @mboxler : I note it - for the curiosity, I'll try to reverse the polarity of the K22K to hear how it sounds.

Strangely, nobody here seems to complain about the extra level (circa +8dB) of sensivity about the K77M and K53K over the K22K, making the stock Heresy barking in the mid-treble region, reason why I added my simple correction to the E2 Xover...

T

In your case, I doubt reversing the woofer polarity will change much, but that's the fun of experimenting! Below are rough simulations of the squawker voltages. The Green is the stock E2. The Red is your modified one. Notice how the swamping resistor creates a first order high pass to the squawker vs the second order on a stock E2.

 

[tubelectron]

In your case, I doubt reversing the woofer polarity will change much, but that's the fun of experimenting! Below are rough simulations of the squawker voltages. The Green is the stock E2. The Red is your modified one. Notice how the swamping resistor creates a first order high pass to the squawker vs the second order on a stock E2.

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I see, interesting - thanks @mboxler ! This is a calculation that I could not do at that time (early 2000s - when I made my mods and measurements above).

Did you also take in count the effect of the 15µF additional cap in you simulation ? Surprisingly, I don't see a very marked drop in level between the two curves... But it's maybe a matter of simultator setting ? However, by ear, the difference was obvious : the modded E-2 sounded much more balanced, got rid of that unpleasant barking-percing tone due to the forefront mids and treble...

T

 

[mboxler]

Did you also take in count the effect of the 15µF additional cap in your simulation?

LTSpice is the only software I could find that allowed me to simulate an autoformer, and it took me a while to do so. Below are the before and after schematics, and yes, I did change the 2uf to 17uf.

Mike

 

[Ebentjerodt]

Hi Everybody!

I am Eduardo a Chilena Audio fun!

I just find a pair 89 Klipschorns in mint conditions and bought them! I switch them for a olgly but great sounding Electrro Voice cinema speakers.

To be honest I am not 100% happy wiht the Khorns and I amtrying to find out the best way to improve them.

A friend is deloping a new xover but I also can get a pair of TAD TD4003. I do not know if this drivers can be used wiht the current horn fo my Khorns.

I will drive them wiht a Japanese made SET wiht 47 Tungsram tubes.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Eduardo

 

[eiraved]

Welcome to AK!! The Klipschorn is a great speaker.
Seems that the speaker's placement so close to a large open fireplace, bookcase and sofa would negatively affect the sound dispersion. Optimally, they should fit tightly in a corner without baseboard or trim interference and the wall surfaces should extend at least 25 inches beyond the side grilles without obstructions.

 

[joecoulson]

Yep - that bookcase and brick wall cannot be helping the situation.

 

[eiraved]

Looking at the fireplace ledge near the speaker, it appears the speaker isn't against the fireplace wall at all. The speaker is over a foot away from that wall. No bueno!

 

[eiraved]

See attachment. You may need to build a false corner to get the best sound from your speakers.

 

[Ebentjerodt]

Welcome to AK!! The Klipschorn is a great speaker.
Seems that the speaker's placement so close to a large open fireplace, bookcase and sofa would negatively affect the sound dispersion. Optimally, they should fit tightly in a corner without baseboard or trim interference and the wall surfaces should extend at least 25 inches beyond the side grilles without obstructions.

Thank you Eiraved! yes that could be the reason. will keep expolirng to see where can I arrive.

 

[Ebentjerodt]

woulkd this mainly be an issues with the bass or other frecuencies too? I have had in this room JBL L300 and Pioneer Exclusive 3401 and I am ok wiht the bass but unhappy wiht midds and treble.

 

[eiraved]

woulkd this mainly be an issues with the bass or other frecuencies too? I have had in this room JBL L300 and Pioneer Exclusive 3401 and I am ok wiht the bass but unhappy wiht midds and treble.

Yes, as proper placement of the Klipschorn is much more critical to the sound than the placement of the JBL and Pioneer.

 

[Ebentjerodt]

ok! that will be complicated as it is the living room. Will go teh way wiht a new xover and see if there is an important imptovement. if not saldy I will have to go other way...

 

[eiraved]

Hopefully the xover will improve the mids to your satisfaction.
Can you place the speakers so they are against the back wall? If the fireplace ledge interferes, you could try temporarily placing some wood boards under the speakers to lift them, raising the speakers enough so you can place them against the rear wall.