tabarddn51
Super Member
Hi, Sorry you obviously have not read any of the outstanding reviews that these arms have got, Try doing some research.
Cheers
Cheers
Korf latest blog - tests 4 arm types for THD including U/Hang with surprising results
- Thread starter tabarddn51
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Thomas_AA
Well-Known Member
I guess none of these ”reviews” include objective measurements. So they can be exluded from this discussion.
Subjective reviews are close to worthless without a correctly operating reference and blind listening, people are just too influenced by what they are told or expected to believe.
Those who promote/sell these arms should do the technical homework and show the comparative data and benefit on technical grounds. The tools are easily available to test how a cartridge actually perform in any arm.
The burden of proof is on those who make extraordinary claims like claiming an obsolete design that was abandoned almost 100 years ago ( for very good reasons )as superior.
I have done my research and homework, and the technical proof showing the benefit of an offset , overhang pivot tonearm is overwhelming, nothing other than hearsay supports the straight underhung arm . While the proof of its problems is simply overwhelming.
What we need is the measurements or math that show the benefit of a underhung straight arm . so far we have seen nothing , nor heard any controlled recordings .
Read and weep. A straigth arm underhung not has does not avoid skating force , the skating force is there regardless of the arm design. A straight arm with Noe offset headshell still has an offset force, and it varies much more than for a standard arm design
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@tabarddn51 ,
Read this page 110, about skating force and arm design, a straight arm and cartridge with no offset angle still has a lof of skating force, and much more variable than a normal arm design, no benefits at all, removing offset angle does not remove skating force, but its add massive misalignment,
Read this page 110, about skating force and arm design, a straight arm and cartridge with no offset angle still has a lof of skating force, and much more variable than a normal arm design, no benefits at all, removing offset angle does not remove skating force, but its add massive misalignment,
tabarddn51
Super Member
Gentleman, You can bleep all you like, unless you open your minds & your EARS & listen to one of these arms, you are missing out big time.
I am using my 8.4'' Warlock Ceramic Float arm & my 15'' Baerwald recommended magnesium arm & can assure you that I have achieved a level of performance & separation and musical depth that I have never heard before in any system at any price or for that matter any of my previous highly acclaimed 12'' arms.
So if I am breaking all the theoretical rules & get the performance I am getting I do not care one iota. It works & it's exceptional.
I will close the subject (for me at least) & enthrall myself listening to a Haydn Piano No 6.
Cheers
I am using my 8.4'' Warlock Ceramic Float arm & my 15'' Baerwald recommended magnesium arm & can assure you that I have achieved a level of performance & separation and musical depth that I have never heard before in any system at any price or for that matter any of my previous highly acclaimed 12'' arms.
So if I am breaking all the theoretical rules & get the performance I am getting I do not care one iota. It works & it's exceptional.
I will close the subject (for me at least) & enthrall myself listening to a Haydn Piano No 6.
Cheers
@tabarddn51 , before you quit, Can you please show the geometry and alignment you use for arm and cartridge. I am curious about what actual skating force and alignment error you actually get. Is it some sort of linear pivoting arm Thales or Reed contraption? It does not seem to be a traditional pivoting arm at all… so pivoting arm math will not fit. Apples&bricks
With some more info it would be possible to understand your setup better. All we know so far is that you like the sound of it.
A
With some more info it would be possible to understand your setup better. All we know so far is that you like the sound of it.
A
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The geometry, though not one of the mentioned in this thread, is a 12,5'' true straight arm (no offset), underhung by 7,8mm. Crunch the numbers and weep - there's no distortion.
An here's the especially special review of an highly acclaimed arm of his: [Review] Temaad Audio Merlin Reference 12 inch Titanium tonearm
An here's the especially special review of an highly acclaimed arm of his: [Review] Temaad Audio Merlin Reference 12 inch Titanium tonearm
Good for you. Glad you are happy. Is that what you want?
Or do you want to state that every other kind of tonearm is 'less than'?
Every so often someone comes on AK saying they have some key to sonic bliss that eludes everyone else.
Usually they go away after a while. Sometimes they go to other forums and try it there.
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To understand the difference between overhang and underhung arm I read Bauers tracking angle article.
Then I asked Claud to implement the formulas and plot the relations in a Python script after 10 iterations I got this.
Showing tracking angle, skating force and distortion from tracking error.
As a reference I use SME V data, and the resluts match
Note Radial pull tangential to groove to wards spindle Fr=F*TAN (tracking angle), skating force 90 degrees to the arm pivot-stylus is F*SIN (tracking angle)= pull along arm arc. same "force", just direction differs.
You may play with your own aligment here, A web App I asked Claude to make for me..
Then I asked Claud to implement the formulas and plot the relations in a Python script after 10 iterations I got this.
Showing tracking angle, skating force and distortion from tracking error.
As a reference I use SME V data, and the resluts match
Note Radial pull tangential to groove to wards spindle Fr=F*TAN (tracking angle), skating force 90 degrees to the arm pivot-stylus is F*SIN (tracking angle)= pull along arm arc. same "force", just direction differs.
You may play with your own aligment here, A web App I asked Claude to make for me..
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Thomas_AA
Well-Known Member
I wonder if Claude could add dynamic force due to modulation into the skating equation.
Thomas_AA
Well-Known Member
I get it, you are working hard and making good things for us... Been busy with fixing cars and bicycles lately, so I've taken a break with vinyl. Relax with this one::::
Frieve Vinyl Explained
A real-time microscopic physics simulation of a record stylus tracing a vinyl groove.
frieve-a.github.io
