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Mach One 4024, 4024A, 4029 Information and Upgrades!

Awesome. Added changes were cool too. Hard to believe the improvement from the ice sheild, but I too have read many posts regarding this. Nice!
 
No worries. At my age my hands aren't as steady as I would like, so certain mods which require some degree of steadiness on my part have me looking for alternatives that may be more accomodating. I would really like for you to give this product a try to see what kind of results you get, but my concern is that unlike your suggestion this product will alter the appearance of the speaker, making it shiney. How shiney is not known, but I'm not particularly crazy about having shiney woofers. Maybe if I was a teen? I don't know.

Anyway, I'm still interested in the mods. I have a set of 4029 woofers I'll be refoaming in the next couple days. I need to locate a couple tweeters and one midrange and then I can begin a 4029 mod myself. I have a pair of 4024a cabs that I can use, so I'm almost there.
 
Hey Sendust when you say ...

"I decided to remove the woofer and line the back, sides and bottom with ice shield, also installed it on the woofer magnet leaving a hole to allow the filter to breathe, also i added it to tweeter magnet, some to the upper and lower portion of the horn."

do you mean line the cabinet interior with this stuff and if so, did you leave the fiberglass in also? And did you line the area where the horn chamber is, as it gets cut to allow more air for woofer i would think you would need to do that chamber too, no?

Can you provide link to purchase this "ice shield" as i never heard of this before.

And VL , what are your thoughts on this?
 
Sound Damping

robmorin said:
Hey Sendust when you say ...

"I decided to remove the woofer and line the back, sides and bottom with ice shield, also installed it on the woofer magnet leaving a hole to allow the filter to breathe, also i added it to tweeter magnet, some to the upper and lower portion of the horn."

do you mean line the cabinet interior with this stuff and if so, did you leave the fiberglass in also? And did you line the area where the horn chamber is, as it gets cut to allow more air for woofer i would think you would need to do that chamber too, no?

Can you provide link to purchase this "ice shield" as i never heard of this before.

And VL , what are your thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

The Ice Shield is a roofing material to replace tar paper. Many have used it to line the panels in cars for audio where it will make a difference. Any time you add anything to a panel you change the resonance of that panel. It can be a brick, a chunk of brass or Ice Shield. It will not remove lower energy but it will help remove the higher energy/buzzes if you have them. It won't hurt to line the cabinet walls and even the mid range horn body. However, this material will take up internal volume from the cabinet so, be very clean with the install and don't try to put to many layers. The cabinet was to small to start with which is why we used the midrange area to make it larger.
 
The ice shield i use is only 1/4 inch thick but the rubber is dense like lead so it deadens the noise, i tested it on plastic to make sure it would not damage the plastic on the horn, it has no solvent therefore no problem, it did not reduce the area inside the speaker cab by very much, i realize we need all of the area we can get, i left the upper part of the cab alone other than stick it on parts of the horn to reduce vibration. I cut the pieces precisely so that there was no overlap in the lower cab area, you may be correct about the area behind the horn but i felt this space we just added and is small, the idea was to deaden the cabinet and just doing the areas i mentioned achieved that.After installing the ice shield i replaced the fiberglass. Any Home Depot or roofing supply has these materials in their roofing section, i recommend you look for a roofer working in your area and after measuring what you need try and purchase some, you so not need an entire roll ,in my case i deal with all trades and it was easy for me to secure. One more note if you use tack down roll roofing you will not need to heat it just remove the plastic and stick it on, if you use ice shield it is only a little tacky so install it all then heat with a blow dryer to activate it. Still anxious to hear vl,s finding on the caps and such
 
Cabinet Size

sendust said:
The ice shield i use is only 1/4 inch thick but the rubber is dense like lead so it deadens the noise, i tested it on plastic to make sure it would not damage the plastic on the horn, it has no solvent therefore no problem, it did not reduce the area inside the speaker cab by very much, i realize we need all of the area we can get, i left the upper part of the cab alone other than stick it on parts of the horn to reduce vibration. I cut the pieces precisely so that there was no overlap in the lower cab area, you may be correct about the area behind the horn but i felt this space we just added and is small, the idea was to deaden the cabinet and just doing the areas i mentioned achieved that.After installing the ice shield i replaced the fiberglass. Any Home Depot or roofing supply has these materials in their roofing section, i recommend you look for a roofer working in your area and after measuring what you need try and purchase some, you so not need an entire roll ,in my case i deal with all trades and it was easy for me to secure. One more note if you use tack down roll roofing you will not need to heat it just remove the plastic and stick it on, if you use ice shield it is only a little tacky so install it all then heat with a blow dryer to activate it. Still anxious to hear vl,s finding on the caps and such
Click to expand...

I know it might not seem like much but if you covered the side walls and the back of the cabinet behind the woofer, without doing the top and bottom you have already reduced your cabinet volume by over 200 square inches! That's not a ton but it does add up quick.
 
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Just one more reason I'm considering building new cabinets. I know it won't be utilizing factory parts (cabs, drivers, etc.), but I'd really like to see how far the drivers can be pushed and if volume is one of the main points of degradation than I'd like to go to the next level. Based on PM's between myself and VL I have a starting point and will have to incorporate as many of the changes posted here as is possible. I already have a name for the project, I just need to get the remaining drivers and pickup the necessary supplies.

After I know more about the 4024a mods I'd like to mod mine since they are still in pretty nice cosmetic condition. Just assume leave them as close to original as I can.

This is a great group of people working on a very worthy project. Very cool!
 
Please be aware I am not trying to say that what I am doing is best for these cabs, through this thread I have come to realize you are very knowledgeable in this field. I’m just letting others know that in my case what I have done has given me a much more pronounced bass that seems to replay lower notes and that my highs are much more natural than before, also I have always known that if doing this did not improve sound, I could remove all of the ice shield with a little heat from a blow dryer
 
I honestly don't believe VL knows all, and I don't think that VL would claim to. So I think ideas, like yours, puts food on the plate for people to test for themselves. Each of us has different hearing and sensitivity to certain sounds and resonances. I for one have never picked up on the resonances that you have corrected with the Ice Sheild, but that might be because I had no form of reference to go on. I'll have to give it a try and see if I can detect any difference.

Out of curiosity, do you have a recommended recording to test with? Something that accentuates this issue? If I don't have it I can get it. Maybe a couple sources that would work, i.e. produce the resonance?
 
Try Hearts Magic Man or Dire Straits Money for nothing, great songs to test sound quality and bass.
 
Thanks for the reply sendust & VL...

Hey Sendust, how much will your cabinet weigh in the end? ;) Like 80 pounds?

This is quite the nice project and thread....

On another quick subject, i thought i read somewhere in this thread about someone replacing the L-Pad/tweeter plate? did this every materialize?

As no matter how careful i was to remove the L-Pad/ tweeter plate i did end up cracking and some of it, and some corners broke, i salvaged what i could and glued via the backside of the plate, some pieces pieces back together with plumbers glue, the stuff you use to cement PVC pipes together it worked well and fast, but, some corners are just to far gone...
:(
Have a great weekend everybody!
 
For testing Audio , i always thought Pink Floyd's "Money" was a good tune for that... it has a bit of everything in it....

Anyone else hear that?
 
I agree Money is a great tune and by the way sounds great on the Mach 1,s, i was just trying to find songs with extremely deep bass that i happen to own.
 
Money is an awesome song for testing these speakers. I have what I think is an original CD of the album and it just sounds awesome. I should probably back it up in case the disc fails.

I also have an original print of the album Brother in Arms by Dire Straits. First DDD album my dad ever bought, got when it first came out. Excellent album :)
 
I know we are getting off topic here but have you heard Money off of direct to disc vinyl,simply amazing
 
sendust said:
I know we are getting off topic here but have you heard Money off of direct to disc vinyl,simply amazing
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Unfortunately I haven't, I am really trying to get a good copy of the album on vinyl, but prices are just too high for one record.

I have been looking at the new pressing of it on amazon, I might get that.

[/offtopic] :)
 
Damping material

Copa1934 said:
I honestly don't believe VL knows all, and I don't think that VL would claim to. So I think ideas, like yours, puts food on the plate for people to test for themselves. Each of us has different hearing and sensitivity to certain sounds and resonances. I for one have never picked up on the resonances that you have corrected with the Ice Sheild, but that might be because I had no form of reference to go on. I'll have to give it a try and see if I can detect any difference.

Out of curiosity, do you have a recommended recording to test with? Something that accentuates this issue? If I don't have it I can get it. Maybe a couple sources that would work, i.e. produce the resonance?
Click to expand...

As quoted I don't know everything and learn new things every day! I never thought it was a bad idea, I think it is a great idea! I just didn't won't anyone to get carried away and put four layers and then say the Tier 2 mods didn't give them the bass response I said it would. I do think it will help as the cabinet does have some issues with vibration. I really think it will help on the midrange horn and the side panels!:yes: We are all here just trying to get a better music experience!
 
Hey VL how are things going with crossover and such, is this a very difficult thing to calculate, or does it entail a lot of trial and error, sorry for my impatience but i am really enjoying what i am learning from this site, and still thankful i ran into the Mach 1,s
 
I was wondering does any know if the filter at the rear of the woofer should be replaced, mine is original and it looks as if there can not be too much air flow there, and if it was to be replaced what should i replace it with?
 
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