Mach One 4024, 4024A, 4029 Information and Upgrades!
- Thread starter Raddek
- Start date
Magic Man by Heart has an interlude including base that demands a great response from the woofer, Dire Straits Money For Nothing has a great beginning that again taxes the woofer, Pink Floyds Money is just a great song to hear how your speakers are reproducing every day sounds.
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Getting There
No trial and error, just tons of measurements and from every angle, then hours of crunching data. You can draft a quick x-over in a few hours but that is not what I am after. My goal is to make the units AGAP. I have done 100s of iterations already with several dozens to go...
On another note: It looks like the 4024a will use the same crossover as the 4029. Mids, Tweeters and Woofers acoustical SPL output is all but the same. There are just a few spots where there is 1db difference in the bandwidth area that will be used. I will post the SPL response graphs tomorrow, or should I say later today, sense it's 1:21am already!!!:yes:
No trial and error, just tons of measurements and from every angle, then hours of crunching data. You can draft a quick x-over in a few hours but that is not what I am after. My goal is to make the units AGAP. I have done 100s of iterations already with several dozens to go...
On another note: It looks like the 4024a will use the same crossover as the 4029. Mids, Tweeters and Woofers acoustical SPL output is all but the same. There are just a few spots where there is 1db difference in the bandwidth area that will be used. I will post the SPL response graphs tomorrow, or should I say later today, sense it's 1:21am already!!!:yes:
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Testing Results
It looks like the 4024a will use the same crossover as the 4029. Mids, Tweeters and Woofers acoustical SPL output is all but the same. There are just a few spots where there is 1db difference in the bandwidth area that will be used. I will post the SPL response graphs tomorrow, or should I say later today, sense it's 1:21am already!!!:yes:[/QUOTE]
Here are the testing results I said I would post. Also, note that all the drivers between the 4024a and 4029 are so close they can be called the same. You can find this much difference between the same model just a different unit. Bottom line is, many have said they think the stock 4024a sounds better but you could put a crossover from a 4024a model in the 4029 model and it should be so close you couldn't tell the difference! The real difference that happened to the sound between the 4024a and 4029 was the crossover!:yes:
It looks like the 4024a will use the same crossover as the 4029. Mids, Tweeters and Woofers acoustical SPL output is all but the same. There are just a few spots where there is 1db difference in the bandwidth area that will be used. I will post the SPL response graphs tomorrow, or should I say later today, sense it's 1:21am already!!!:yes:[/QUOTE]
Here are the testing results I said I would post. Also, note that all the drivers between the 4024a and 4029 are so close they can be called the same. You can find this much difference between the same model just a different unit. Bottom line is, many have said they think the stock 4024a sounds better but you could put a crossover from a 4024a model in the 4029 model and it should be so close you couldn't tell the difference! The real difference that happened to the sound between the 4024a and 4029 was the crossover!:yes:
Attachments
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
Hey, don't kill yourself, we need you. Looks like the 4024a is less peaky except where the tweeter is concerned. Very cool, though like you say they are extremely close and you are likely on the money about utilizing same xovers.
Impressive stuff, and shows some consistency on the part of RS. I have to wonder how many other manufacturers stayed true to the design as long as RS did with the Mach's?
Impressive stuff, and shows some consistency on the part of RS. I have to wonder how many other manufacturers stayed true to the design as long as RS did with the Mach's?
When i did my cones i installed it as advised by VL, i cut a small hole in the tube and painstakenly painted / drew it on untill i saw only black ,for me it took quite a while and although i was outdoors it still hurt my eyes (i coudnt find the non toxic)
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
About coating woofers
The info above is the non-fuming type. I recommend it highly. The first thing you have to do is get all the dirt/dust off the driver with a clean dry paint brush. Make sure it is clean, clean, clean.. Ok. Now, with the smallest opening you can make and letting the glue run out on it's own, you must draw it on, like coloring a white piece of paper black with a pencil. You will see it soak into the cone right away. Any that does not soak in must be wiped off with a paper towel right away or it will turn shinny. It is almost like putting on a drop at a time and letting it soak in, then doing it all over again. Note, if it does not soak in right away, you must wipe it off with a paper towel. Also, you do not want to stop in the process, or it will make it harder to get a smooth look. If the glue you just put on is allowed to dry first the next glue you put on, where it meets the previous glue will not soak in where it over laps and the new apllied glue will end up shinny if not wiped off. Hope this helps and please ask questions or try it on a piece of cardboard first to get the feel of it.
A 1oz bottle should do a pair of Mach 1 speakers. You may need just a little more to finish the second unit and it does take time to do. Also, if you are using the standard formula, you should be outside and where the wind will blow the fumes away from you.
The info above is the non-fuming type. I recommend it highly. The first thing you have to do is get all the dirt/dust off the driver with a clean dry paint brush. Make sure it is clean, clean, clean.. Ok. Now, with the smallest opening you can make and letting the glue run out on it's own, you must draw it on, like coloring a white piece of paper black with a pencil. You will see it soak into the cone right away. Any that does not soak in must be wiped off with a paper towel right away or it will turn shinny. It is almost like putting on a drop at a time and letting it soak in, then doing it all over again. Note, if it does not soak in right away, you must wipe it off with a paper towel. Also, you do not want to stop in the process, or it will make it harder to get a smooth look. If the glue you just put on is allowed to dry first the next glue you put on, where it meets the previous glue will not soak in where it over laps and the new apllied glue will end up shinny if not wiped off. Hope this helps and please ask questions or try it on a piece of cardboard first to get the feel of it.
A 1oz bottle should do a pair of Mach 1 speakers. You may need just a little more to finish the second unit and it does take time to do. Also, if you are using the standard formula, you should be outside and where the wind will blow the fumes away from you.
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Caps
Yes you can parallel them to get the right value. I think PE has the 8.2uf in the Solan caps.:yes:
Yes you can parallel them to get the right value. I think PE has the 8.2uf in the Solan caps.:yes:
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Shinny??
The lower midrange from the woofer cone, if the surface is shinny, will have a thinner sound, cold and glassy. If the paper stays dull and textured it will produce a more damped tone in the lower mids. If it is shinny from a rubberized coating that will be fine, but the polymer in the CA is glass hard and so will the sound be. Like the difference in a metal dome and a soft dome tweeter!:yes:
The lower midrange from the woofer cone, if the surface is shinny, will have a thinner sound, cold and glassy. If the paper stays dull and textured it will produce a more damped tone in the lower mids. If it is shinny from a rubberized coating that will be fine, but the polymer in the CA is glass hard and so will the sound be. Like the difference in a metal dome and a soft dome tweeter!:yes:
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Solan vs Dayton
The Solan Caps are very fast, but, I have tested and noticed that all Solans have a strong edge in their sound around 3khz. This has something to do with materials and their construction. This is something that is not needed on the Mach 1s. On a speaker like the Mach 1s, I think you will get better results with the Dayton! Some may not hear the difference, but I do. Bottom line is, you can use the electrolytic caps to save money if you need to and they will work fine. In this speaker, it is more about the value(correct component value), than the brand of the product.
A speaker with a great design and cheaper parts can out perform a speaker with the best of parts and a poor design!
The Solan Caps are very fast, but, I have tested and noticed that all Solans have a strong edge in their sound around 3khz. This has something to do with materials and their construction. This is something that is not needed on the Mach 1s. On a speaker like the Mach 1s, I think you will get better results with the Dayton! Some may not hear the difference, but I do. Bottom line is, you can use the electrolytic caps to save money if you need to and they will work fine. In this speaker, it is more about the value(correct component value), than the brand of the product.
A speaker with a great design and cheaper parts can out perform a speaker with the best of parts and a poor design!
videolady201
AK Member-Design Engineer
Tier 1 Info
I posted the above information for Tier 1 some time ago. These are the caps they are talking about.
The tier 1 upgrade paper is ready for all who have an interest. It is in PDF file format and can be downloaded at the link below. Please contact me with questions.
http://66.116.167.39/mach1/tier1.pdf
I posted the above information for Tier 1 some time ago. These are the caps they are talking about.
Buttercup
Well-Known Member
Turns out the 4029 mods work for the 4024a as well!
Because i was waiting for to look at the 4024, i ignored the crossover and then forgot about it. Now with your findings on the similarity between the 4029 and 4024 i am going ahead, thank you for your advice.