Mach One 4024, 4024A, 4029 Information and Upgrades!

[videolady201]

Tier 1 Upgrade Question Explained

ok VL now you have lost me, in the tier one report it never mentioned replacing the 3mh with a 2.7mh. Is it needed and a noticeable change, if so i will remove the crossover and make needed changes.

Tier 1 was for 4029 models only as I did not have nor had I tested any 4024a of which I still had the data. As I tested the 4024a drivers a week or so ago, I found that they are pretty much the same as the 4029!! Both in impedance and more important, in acoustical SPL output! Now, some have decided to do a Tier 1 on their 4024a models. Tier 1 didn't say to change the 3mh to 2.7mh because again it was for the 4029 which already had a 2.7mh. So the changes I just posted a few back are needed for anyone that is going to use the Tier 1 on a 4024a model. NOTE: About the 3mh Coil. If you leave your 3mh just as it is and the lower mids sound thin, then I would wind it down. If you are happy with the lower mids and they sound full, leave it alone! The change will be small, but to some they will hear the difference! Hope this helps.:yes:

 

[videolady201]

Tier 1 Mids & Tweeter Phase/Wiring

This thread has gotten so bloody long (not complaining) so finding what I'm looking for has been a challenge.

As it relates to both 4024 and 4029, are the leads from the crossover reversed for mids and tweets? I thought I saw mentioned where this was the case from the factory, but not necessary with the Tier-1 upgrades. Is this correct?

Thanks!!!

In the Tier 1 all drivers are to be hooked in Phase. + to + and - to -. I have found from the factory the model 4029 had the Woofer and Mid wired in phase. However, the tweeter was hooked out of phase from the L-pad to the tweeter driver. With the Tier 1, the tweeter needs to be hooked in phase/reverse the clips at the tweeter horn. I believe you will find that the 4024a models are also wired this way. Make sure to check them.

 

[sendust]

Tier 1 was for 4029 models only as I did not have nor had I tested any 4024a of which I still had the data. As I tested the 4024a drivers a week or so ago, I found that they are pretty much the same as the 4029!! Both in impedance and more important, in acoustical SPL output! Now, some have decided to do a Tier 1 on their 4024a models. Tier 1 didn't say to change the 3mh to 2.7mh because again it was for the 4029 which already had a 2.7mh. So the changes I just posted a few back are needed for anyone that is going to use the Tier 1 on a 4024a model. NOTE: About the 3mh Coil. If you leave your 3mh just as it is and the lower mids sound thin, then I would wind it down. If you are happy with the lower mids and they sound full, leave it alone! The change will be small, but to some they will hear the difference! Hope this helps.:yes:

I think either way i will wind it down, it gives me a chance to check all my soldered connections, now i do have one more question if you don't mind. I notice that on the 3mh coil the wire on the top and wire on the bottom cross each other and touch as the go to their designated connections ,i am not sure why there is no short but both speakers are the same ,any thought on this. I will post a picture when i remove the crossovers.

 

[sendust]

In the Tier 1 all drivers are to be hooked in Phase. + to + and - to -. I have found from the factory the model 4029 had the Woofer and Mid wired in phase. However, the tweeter was hooked out of phase from the L-pad to the tweeter driver. With the Tier 1, the tweeter needs to be hooked in phase/reverse the clips at the tweeter horn. I believe you will find that the 4024a models are also wired this way. Make sure to check them.

On the 4024a i have found the wiring from the crossover to the L pad are identical for tweeter and mid range, the only thing i dont know is on the tweeter which side is positive, there are no markings but one terminal is a reddish brown the other is off white. I think the reddish brown would be positive ,if so they are wired in phase if not i am out of phase please let me shed some light if you can

 

[videolady201]

Inductor Wire Crossing

I think either way i will wind it down, it gives me a chance to check all my soldered connections, now i do have one more question if you don't mind. I notice that on the 3mh coil the wire on the top and wire on the bottom cross each other and touch as the go to their designated connections ,i am not sure why there is no short but both speakers are the same ,any thought on this. I will post a picture when i remove the crossovers.

The wire is enameled, this coating keeps it from shorting, however, a couple of nicks and you do have a short. I would make sure they don't cross, or at least, make sure they don't touch.

 

[videolady201]

Tweeter Wiring

On the 4024a i have found the wiring from the crossover to the L pad are identical for tweeter and mid range, the only thing i dont know is on the tweeter which side is positive, there are no markings but one terminal is a reddish brown the other is off white. I think the reddish brown would be positive ,if so they are wired in phase if not i am out of phase please let me shed some light if you can

The red is positive! But, I bet you have a blue wire on the red terminal and I also bet it goes to pin 3 of the l-pad, which is ground!! If the blue wire is on the 3rd pin, you need the blue wire on the white terminal and not the red one!!:yes:

 

[sendust]

The red is positive! But, I bet you have a blue wire on the red terminal and I also bet it goes to pin 3 of the l-pad, which is ground!! If the blue wire is on the 3rd pin, you need the blue wire on the white terminal and not the red one!!:yes:

The blue wire that goes to the tweeter is connected to the center post, the blue wire from the crossover is on the post to the far left when facing the front of the speaker so again i ask do i need to reverse the wires.

 

[videolady201]

Tweeter Wires 4024a

The blue wire that goes to the tweeter is connected to the center post, the blue wire from the crossover is on the post to the far left when facing the front of the speaker so again i ask do i need to reverse the wires.

If the blue wire is on the red terminal of the tweeter you are in good shape! If no one has ever change it, that means the 4024a are in phase from the factory on the tweeter. :thmbsp:

 

[sendust]

If the blue wire is on the red terminal of the tweeter you are in good shape! If no one has ever change it, that means the 4024a are in phase from the factory on the tweeter. :thmbsp:

Both speakers are the same and they do look original, others can check but it seems this is another way that the 4024a,s differed from the 4029,s. as always thanks for you advice.

 

[sendust]

If you leave your 3mh just as it is and the lower mids sound thin, then I would wind it down.

Hi VL I will be winding down the mid range and tweeter coils this evening to the values mentioned. Will doing this lower the highs from these speakers, sometimes with groups like Heart and Supertramp the highs can be a little ear piercing, i know i can filter this with controls on the amp but would rather not if possible. Besides maybe changing amps to models you noted were designed for these speakers is there anything i can do with crossover design?

 

[videolady201]

Coils

Hi VL I will be winding down the mid range and tweeter coils this evening to the values mentioned. Will doing this lower the highs from these speakers, sometimes with groups like Heart and Supertramp the highs can be a little ear piercing, i know i can filter this with controls on the amp but would rather not if possible. Besides maybe changing amps to models you noted were designed for these speakers is there anything i can do with crossover design?

Winding the coils down will help a bit. If the heart is on CD, most I have heard are harsh on any speaker. Heart on LP sounds much better. Also, tier 2will really make a big difference!!

 

[sendust]

Winding the coils down will help a bit. If the heart is on CD, most I have heard are harsh on any speaker. Heart on LP sounds much better. Also, tier 2will really make a big difference!!

Yes its only lp,s for me. Cant wait for the tier 2. as always thanks

 

[tmblack]

Will Tier 2 crossover separate the tweeter freq from the midrange horn?

 

[sendust]

Can you send an image? I don't recall mine crossing. I have an extra set at work I'll check out tomorrow. As for the coil, I'll have to check that out tomorrow as well, thought I had that info here at home.

Now that i have wound down both the tweeter and woofer coils, i see on the 4024a crossover the manufacture twisted the wires at the coil before soldering onto terminals, i may be wrong but i think this was to keep the wiring on the coils tight.

 

[Copa1934]

I'd say that's a good observation. The 0.2mh on mine are hot glued, while the others are wrapped in cloth (cloth tape?) and then hot glued. Appears mine are twisted or interlocked (if you will) before soldered into place. Mine have a lot of hot glue used all over, mostly I'm guessing to secure against vibration. I'd say that's pretty good attention to detail, something you would expect from higher end speakers.

 

[sendust]

I'd say that's a good observation. The 0.2mh on mine are hot glued, while the others are wrapped in cloth (cloth tape?) and then hot glued. Appears mine are twisted or interlocked (if you will) before soldered into place. Mine have a lot of hot glue used all over, mostly I'm guessing to secure against vibration. I'd say that's pretty good attention to detail, something you would expect from higher end speakers.

After winding off wire from the coils and installing new caps(some in parallel to achieve needed values) i used silicone to fasten the caps to the board, between caps to keep them from vibrating and then smeared some on the coils to keep the wire firmly in place.

 

[Buttercup]

My meter doesn't have a scale to measure inductance... can someone tell me how much wire to unwind from each coil?

 

[kramerpage]

mid horn driver mod help needed

Hello all,
I am starting all the mods in this thread to a pair of 4024A's. Thanks to all who have contributed. I posted back on page 4 or 5 I believe and have waited until videolady completed all her work. I am an engineer but know nothing about audio systems and am eager to learn some since my golf game is getting worse instead of better.

1)The black plastic base on the mid horn driver diaphragm and coil was glued to the magnet deck with a brown glue or sealer. Do I need to reglue it? If so what kind of glue?

2) How do I attach the 1/8 inch felt circles to the magnet deck and attach the three together when I tier them up?

Thanks for any help. I am sure I will have more questions as I go thru all the mods.

Kramer

 

[videolady201]

Tier 1 Questions

View attachment 228199Hello all,
I am starting all the mods in this thread to a pair of 4024A's. Thanks to all who have contributed. I posted back on page 4 or 5 I believe and have waited until videolady completed all her work. I am an engineer but know nothing about audio systems and am eager to learn some since my golf game is getting worse instead of better.

1)The black plastic base on the mid horn driver diaphragm and coil was glued to the magnet deck with a brown glue or sealer. Do I need to reglue it? If so what kind of glue?

2) How do I attach the 1/8 inch felt circles to the magnet deck and attach the three together when I tier them up?

Thanks for any help. I am sure I will have more questions as I go thru all the mods.

Kramer

You can use silicone glue for the mid. You need to feed the unit a 1k test tone at 1 watt/2.83volts, when you put the dome back on with the glue. Move it left, right, up and down to center it and make sure it is not buzzing on the pole piece. Hold it at that posistion until the glue sets.

If you get the felt pads that are self stick, that is all that is needed. They will stick to the magnet pole and to each other.:yes:

 

[robmorin]

I used the felt pads you use to put on the bottom of chairs so they do not scratch the floor, those work fine by VL..