Marantz 2230 rebuild "C4" C0G's and 4 pole capacitors

[tom1066]

Pat, maybe I missed it but any details on the ceramic upgrades (position, parts number] you made? I still have my 2230 open and could do that real quick. Not sure I can justify those Jensen or Mundorf caps though they look to cost about as much as I paid for the receiver. Still interesting stuff that I might could do in a future unit.

Tom

 

[patfont]

If I only had 50-60 bucks to spend on a 2230 rebuild I would replace just the power cap with the Jensen that is how good it is! It makes the biggest difference/improvement leap forward in sound of anything else I have done.

-No electronic artifacts
-Sound stage is so rock solid you can easily see where each intruement/vocalist is
-high end is like nothing you ever heard, has the naturalness of a high end piece.
-No low bass from a cap coupled receiver, it has bass now.

Pat, maybe I missed it but any details on the ceramic upgrades (position, parts number] you made? I still have my 2230 open and could do that real quick. Not sure I can justify those Jensen or Mundorf caps though they look to cost about as much as I paid for the receiver. Still interesting stuff that I might could do in a future unit.

Tom

 

[CohibaJoe]

Joe I know you are a like minded person, go for the Jensen and give it at least 100 hours.

Will do...Going to order 2...One for 2230 and another 1060 coming in Tuesday.

 

[patfont]

Bingo!

You will also need 35mm clamps.

Will do...Going to order 2...One for 2230 and another 1060 coming in Tuesday.

 

[MikeRam]

Pat,

Did you find the Jensen that much better than the Mundorf?

Mike

 

[hirscwi]

Here's where I'd put the new ceramics, and mfg p/n - sorry it's hard to read.

These appear to be the only ceramics in the signal path (or at least all I can find).

P450 Tone Controls
C455 6.8 nF 6.8nF 100V Kemet PHE426
C456 6.8 nF 6.8nF 100V Kemet PHE426
C457 10nF 10nF 100V Kemet PHE426
C458 10nF 10nF 100V Kemet PHE426
C459 100pF 100pF 100V AVX SR15 series
C460 100pF 100pF 100V AVX SR15 series
C461 2.2nF 2.2nF 100V Kemet PHE426
C462 2.2nF 2.2nF 100V Kemet PHE426

P600 Hi, Lo Filter
C607 100pF 100pF 100V AVX SR15
C608 100pF 100pF 100V AVX SR15



P750 Main Amp (note 2 PCB, with duplicate designations)


C761 100pF WIMA FKP2

Pat, maybe I missed it but any details on the ceramic upgrades (position, parts number] you made? I still have my 2230 open and could do that real quick. Not sure I can justify those Jensen or Mundorf caps though they look to cost about as much as I paid for the receiver. Still interesting stuff that I might could do in a future unit.

Tom

 

[patfont]

sorry, here is what I used. I like the crimped terminal style they fit better and are easier to install in different lead spacings.

C761 Qty 1 for each amp board
581-SR222A101JAR 100pf

C705/C706 x2
581-SR221A390KAA 39pf

C707/C708 x2
581-SR222A3R9DAA 3.9pf

Pat, maybe I missed it but any details on the ceramic upgrades (position, parts number] you made? I still have my 2230 open and could do that real quick. Not sure I can justify those Jensen or Mundorf caps though they look to cost about as much as I paid for the receiver. Still interesting stuff that I might could do in a future unit.

Tom

 

[patfont]

They are both awesome, but the Jensen gets you to the "reality" level sound reproduction wise.

I will comment further and hate to use the analogy but.......you will be pulling out all your records to give them a re-listen, I will honestly say you have not heard them to the fullest and now you can get very very close.

Here are the 3 world beating things the Jensen does.

1. the high end is to die for-about as good as I have heard through any piece of equipment. There are also no electronic artifacts to smear or bury small inner details and shadings.

2. The placement and stability of the sound stage is amazing, the guitar does not move just because it's sound is changing. On Pink Floyd "The Wall" on the cymbal crash (after the helicoptor sound) it has an impact and realism that is reproduced perfectly and sits tight in it's place, despite the other music involved in this song.

3. The vocals are liquid gold.

*******2 side notes of interest:

My wife who could really not care less about audio as she walked through the room while I was listening to Dafos (Reunion) "That sounds amazing!

My son who is an audio eng. put on some Norma Jean and noted he has not heard anything with this clarity.

Pat,

Did you find the Jensen that much better than the Mundorf?

Mike

 

[Hyperion]

Me neither. Perhaps you can throw up a simple schematic of these things.

I found this, which doesn't help a whole lot:

"Four pole electrolytic capacitor - Four terminal electrolytics with superior high frequency transfer impedance and transient and noise attenuation/suppression capability. As the input and output circuits of the capacitor are decoupled from each other by means of an inherent filter formed inside the capacitor winding, transients and noises coming from the mains cannot pass through the capacitor and reach the primary signal path. The four pole electrolytic is the ultimate reservoir capacitor choice for switched mode and traditional power supplies."

If I understand the kind of capacitor being discussed here correctly, from what I have read the idea is to get the current flowing through the foil - not just connected to it. So there is an "in" terminal and an "out" terminal for '+' and the same for '-' this has some significant advantages which are borne out in testing. (cancellation of inductance?)

 

[JigaWatt]

What capacitor did you change on the phono board to 22 uf?
The wima caps that are on the pre amp board, you just used one instead of two in parallel?
I don't recognize the blue capacitor on the left of the phono board.
Also, Is there a resistor in the signal path on the phono board? (R703-704)

Sorry for all the questions. haha

 

[patfont]

On the phono board C703/C704 are 22uf caps and I replaced with 47uf Silmic II.

The Wima Caps on the Prer amp board are as follows:

C414/C415 are Wima 10mm MKS4 1uf

C407/C408 are MKS2 3.3uf

Since I am using the MKS4 at C414/C415 I use Silmic II 3.3uf at C410/C411 so they fit. To me it is more importiant to get the MKS4 at that location then use 4 MKS2's

I replace all e-caps in the 2230 including the axial 220uf cap behind the phono board and the 33uf at the tuning meter.

Hope this helps.

What capacitor did you change on the phono board to 22 uf?
The wima caps that are on the pre amp board, you just used one instead of two in parallel?
I don't recognize the blue capacitor on the left of the phono board.
Also, Is there a resistor in the signal path on the phono board? (R703-704)

Sorry for all the questions. haha

 

[Flaxmill19]

Hi Pat & Ben,

This may sound like an odd question, I have a 140 amp and I replaced the single twin 13000 µF power filter capacitors with two Mundorf – M-Lytic AG Series – 63V - 15000 µF 2 pole capacitors. Do you believe that there would be any advantage to change these to 4 pole capacitors? And if so, would these be wired as shown in the Jensen Application Notes (https://audio.jensencapacitors.com/Application_notes/)? Or should I just stick with what I have? It’s just that Pat seemed to think these are a real step up and I am all for that!

Look forward to your comments.

Tony

Thanks for the links, Pat.

If I'm not mistaken, these capacitors are similar to the use of multiple capacitors in parallel in a power supply, e.g., instead of using a single 10.000µF capacitor, you use 2 x 5,600µF capacitors together. IIRC, in the mid-90s many high-end SS amplifier designers advocated exactly this approach, and it has now become common place in amplifier power supplies since then. With double the number of capacitors you halved the power supply ESR and the ESL. Of course, you can further decrease the ESR and ESL if you use more capacitors.

The advantage of these particular capacitors, due to their form-factor, is that they can be used to upgrade older amplifiers and receivers, very clever. Thanks for sharing.

 

[patfont]

So like you when I did my 140 I went from the 2 pole to not 2 caps like you did but to 4 caps. (Nichicon KG's 10000ufX4) For me I need to have the unit in front of me to see where all the wires come from and where they go to. It would be extremly difficult for me to trace the leads via the scat to tell you where each wire goes.

For the 4 pole the cap has a positive in/positive out
negative in/negative out

In a regular cap you are going from Power supply + side rec. to + side of cap you also have at the same connection the wires going to the + side of amp board etc. So with the 4 pole you are isolating these connections from one another. The + in coming from rectifier/? goes to the positive in, and then the wire going to the amp/? will connect to the positive out giving it a clean and isolated path.

Hope this helps

Hi Pat & Ben,

This may sound like an odd question, I have a 140 amp and I replaced the single twin 13000 µF power filter capacitors with two Mundorf – M-Lytic AG Series – 63V - 15000 µF 2 pole capacitors. Do you believe that there would be any advantage to change these to 4 pole capacitors? And if so, would these be wired as shown in the Jensen Application Notes (https://audio.jensencapacitors.com/Application_notes/)? Or should I just stick with what I have? It’s just that Pat seemed to think these are a real step up and I am all for that!

Look forward to your comments.

Tony

 

[Salbreth1]

I'm pretty excited about this. I just picked up a 2245 yesterday and am getting a parts list together. I have a 2220 that I recently re-capped with KG's on the mains and Silmic II's everywhere else. And just listening to the 2220 is night and day compared to the stock 2245. I cant imagine the results with the 4 pole cap.
Thanks again Pat.

Sal

 

[Flaxmill19]

Thanks for your comments Pat, if you look at Jensen’s Application Notes (link above post #33) and used connection ‘A’ you would have the ‘+’ & ‘-‘ coming from the rectifier, that appears all good (I think) but the for me the big question is where do you connect the grounded wires?? Would the ground simply go to ground (chassis) as there is no requirement to ground the capacitor?

And would you use a choke as show in the Jensen connection ‘A’ schematic???

And would this (in your (or others) opinion) bring greater sonic benefits over the two, two pole Mundorf’s that are currently fitted??

Any thoughts??

Tony

So like you when I did my 140 I went from the 2 pole to not 2 caps like you did but to 4 caps. (Nichicon KG's 10000ufX4) For me I need to have the unit in front of me to see where all the wires come from and where they go to. It would be extremly difficult for me to trace the leads via the scat to tell you where each wire goes.

For the 4 pole the cap has a positive in/positive out
negative in/negative out

In a regular cap you are going from Power supply + side rec. to + side of cap you also have at the same connection the wires going to the + side of amp board etc. So with the 4 pole you are isolating these connections from one another. The + in coming from rectifier/? goes to the positive in, and then the wire going to the amp/? will connect to the positive out giving it a clean and isolated path.

Hope this helps

 

[cbn700]

I have just started reading this post and it has really peaked my interest. I am just having a bit of trouble figuring out on how these Jensen caps will be wired once they are installed. Can you show a pic or maybe a wiring diagram. Sorry if this is a silly question, just want to understand on how this is done. thanks

 

[patfont]

This 2230 is on it's way to a new home, so sorry about no pic.
*I do have a receiver in house that will be getting a 4 pole and will post up a pic when I get to it.

I have just started reading this post and it has really peaked my interest. I am just having a bit of trouble figuring out on how these Jensen caps will be wired once they are installed. Can you show a pic or maybe a wiring diagram. Sorry if this is a silly question, just want to understand on how this is done. thanks

 

[Leestereo]

Thanks for your comments Pat, if you look at Jensen’s Application Notes (link above post #33) and used connection ‘A’ you would have the ‘+’ & ‘-‘ coming from the rectifier, that appears all good (I think) but the for me the big question is where do you connect the grounded wires?? Would the ground simply go to ground (chassis) as there is no requirement to ground the capacitor?

And would you use a choke as show in the Jensen connection ‘A’ schematic???

And would this (in your (or others) opinion) bring greater sonic benefits over the two, two pole Mundorf’s that are currently fitted??

Any thoughts??

Tony

The Jensen Application Note mentioned is for a single pole power supply, i.e., there is only a B+ voltage, and the load is connected to the B+ and ground. This is the type of power supply found in amplifiers with capacitor-coupled output stages, e.g., a Marantz 2230.

The Marantz 140 uses a split power supply with B+ and B- voltage rails and the ground is connected to the -ve terminal of the B+ capacitor and the +ve terminal of the B- capacitor.

 

[CohibaJoe]

The Jensen Application Note mentioned is for a single pole power supply, i.e., there is only a B+ voltage, and the load is connected to the B+ and ground. This is the type of power supply found in amplifiers with capacitor-coupled output stages, e.g., a Marantz 2230.

The Marantz 140 uses a split power supply with B+ and B- voltage rails and the ground is connected to the -ve terminal of the B+ capacitor and the +ve terminal of the B- capacitor.

Thank You!!!!! I did order the Jensen 4-Pole and going in a 1060 and was wondering how to connect.

 

[Overundr1]

Hmmm :headscrat I have 4 THA series caps on hand for the main cap stuffing on my 2285b I rebuilt a few weeks ago. Given just how good this thing sounds I may have to rethink the main cap restuffing route. Yes the 2285b sounds so good it is worth the upgrade imho. Looking at the data sheet makes me think that the bypass cap on main cap add on will not be necessary either.
-Lee