Marantz 2270 Engraved Survey

[Parallax982]

I edited my post to make clear which were engraved/non-engraved in my photos.

Thanks. I see the clear difference between the silver and the champagne face plates. But in both cases the champagne are engraved and the silver is not. Until I see an engraved champagne plate next to an engraved silver plate, I'll continue to be unsure whether there really is a silver engraved plate.

 

[DRozell]

I thought about pulling the 2270 out of the wood cabinet, thinking that might be affecting the pictures. I need to test and clean the 2270 so maybe then I'll pull the face plate off and get better pictures.

One has to wonder why you would create a special edition of anything and make the difference so slight it would be hard to notice it. It would be easier to believe that the first batch of face plates made were slightly off on color, maybe several different batches of raw metal all trying to meet a unique color design spec (champagne) could account for any champagne color variations. Was the champagne color planned only for the first batch or was the plan to make them all champagne and there was an unacceptable amount of variation so the color was dropped? The differences found in the texture of the face plates could also be a first batch production problem (different batches of blank metal the face plates were stamped from or two different polishing machines in the production line). Also before the next batch was run it was determined that engraving was too costly so that was dropped and someone wanted to change the tuning wheel text. All these issues were fixed before the next batches were run.

I'm not questioning the collected wisdom and history already found and discussed, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, from a production standpoint, that you would have both champagne and silver engraved face plates, and two different textures all mixed together in one batch without it being production related. One has to wonder what a purchase order would look like to get these variations in the first 4000 units made.

Remember that a week ago I didn't know about these engraved units and I have not spent much time researching it. I'm guessing anything I've said above has been thoroughly debated and I have just not found it yet. So consider this just my 2 cents. I don't think anything I've stated questions the plan to make a special run of units to celebrate some milestone. I think production issues (color and texture) combined with intentional design changes (engraving and wheel text) seem to lead me to a reasonable explanation to what made it to market.

 

[Parallax982]

I thought about pulling the 2270 out of the wood cabinet, thinking that might be affecting the pictures. I need to test and clean the 2270 so maybe then I'll pull the face plate off and get better pictures.

One has to wonder why you would create a special edition of anything and make the difference so slight it would be hard to notice it. It would be easier to believe that the first batch of face plates made were slightly off on color, maybe several different batches of raw metal all trying to meet a unique color design spec (champagne) could account for any champagne color variations. Was the champagne color planned only for the first batch or was the plan to make them all champagne and there was an unacceptable amount of variation so the color was dropped? The differences found in the texture of the face plates could also be a first batch production problem (different batches of blank metal the face plates were stamped from or two different polishing machines in the production line). Also before the next batch was run it was determined that engraving was too costly so that was dropped and someone wanted to change the tuning wheel text. All these issues were fixed before the next batches were run.

I'm not questioning the collected wisdom and history already found and discussed, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, from a production standpoint, that you would have both champagne and silver engraved face plates, and two different textures all mixed together in one batch without it being production related. One has to wonder what a purchase order would look like to get these variations in the first 4000 units made.

Remember that a week ago I didn't know about these engraved units and I have not spent much time researching it. I'm guessing anything I've said above has been thoroughly debated and I have just not found it yet. So consider this just my 2 cents. I don't think anything I've stated questions the plan to make a special run of units to celebrate some milestone. I think production issues (color and texture) combined with intentional design changes (engraving and wheel text) seem to lead me to a reasonable explanation to what made it to market.

Well, I'm no expert either but have read this entire thread and others that covered some of the same questions. I appreciate your guesses and imagine there's a good chance you're right. I too have been skeptical that there was a deliberate effort to create separate silver and champagne face plates among the first 4,000. It's possible there were but it makes as much or more sense that we're witnessing production differences that arose for non-intentional reasons. It would be great if someone who was involved with the manufacturing process at the time could be located and questioned but most of those guys are likely in Japan and all these years later who knows how many remain above ground.

Clearly, there was a conscious choice to switch over to straight silver and silk screening after the 4,000th unit (number 5,000); not just in the 2270 model line but across many models. It also seems this was true for the first 4,000 units produced in other locations (Canada, Europe and Asia). We can't say for sure why but it's a good guess that it had to do with production costs. We can also see that choices were made in subsequent generations of models to reduce costs further by making them lighter, which some would argue made them less durable. But then I've read at least one tech who said that the later models (as in late "70s into very early "80s) were more reliable than a unit like the 2270, which was designed in the late "60s and sold in the early "70s.

 

[DRozell]

I just downloaded a copy of the 1972 Marantz catalog since I read here somewhere that this champagne was done for the 1972 anniversary. It is interesting that for the 1972 receivers the catalog description states that the 2222, 2230, 2245, and 2270 receivers have a gold-anodized front panel. The 1974 catalog has the same descriptions. The 1971 catalog also states gold-anodized for the 2215 receiver. The pictures in the catalogs look to be of a gold variety.

I then did a quick search for how to do gold-anodizing on aluminum. The anodizing process itself is a electrochemical process and metal parts can also be dyed as they undergo the anodizing process. Looks like there would be a lot of opportunity with this process to get color variation. And extra cost and time.

Someone in one of these threads also mentioned sun fading as a source of color variation.

Gold per the marketing catalogs, champagne as a limited edition for the first 4000 units. Maybe the plan was for all units to be gold tinted but, once again due to cost, the gold-anodizing process was dropped after the first batch and silver appeared thereafter. Once again another change for cost reasons seems reasonable. Oh, and nobody told the marketing department of the change for several years.

I'm now trying to find the earliest mention of "champagne" for these units. I see the classicreceivers.com tells the same story found on this site. Who was first?

I'm starting to become more curious the more I learn. I'm finding that most of what I've stated others have already pointed out in other related threads. So far though nobody has mentioned the 1971, 72, 74 catalog descriptions of gold-anodized faceplates.

 

[Parallax982]

I just downloaded a copy of the 1972 Marantz catalog since I read here somewhere that this champagne was done for the 1972 anniversary. It is interesting that for the 1972 receivers the catalog description states that the 2222, 2230, 2245, and 2270 receivers have a gold-anodized front panel. The 1974 catalog has the same descriptions. The 1971 catalog also states gold-anodized for the 2215 receiver. The pictures in the catalogs look to be of a gold variety.

I then did a quick search for how to do gold-anodizing on aluminum. The anodizing process itself is a electrochemical process and metal parts can also be dyed as they undergo the anodizing process. Looks like there would be a lot of opportunity with this process to get color variation. And extra cost and time.

Someone in one of these threads also mentioned sun fading as a source of color variation.

Gold per the marketing catalogs, champagne as a limited edition for the first 4000 units. Maybe the plan was for all units to be gold tinted but, once again due to cost, the gold-anodizing process was dropped after the first batch and silver appeared thereafter. Once again another change for cost reasons seems reasonable. Oh, and nobody told the marketing department of the change for several years.

I'm now trying to find the earliest mention of "champagne" for these units. I see the classicreceivers.com tells the same story found on this site. Who was first?

I'm starting to become more curious the more I learn. I'm finding that most of what I've stated others have already pointed out in other related threads. So far though nobody has mentioned the 1971, 72, 74 catalog descriptions of gold-anodized faceplates.

Thanks for all the work you're doing to sleuth this out, man. I'm wondering if you might have some links you can share with us. Would love to see the catalogues and also what others have said in other threads on this and other sites.

 

[rBuckner]

My two cents/guess is that they were not engraved but stamped. The lettering edges are rounded inwards. To engrave that so repeatably would take a computer controlled device with a pretty fine bit for the thin parts of the letters and was maybe not available. I bet they found that the stamping dies wore out or broke quickly and that is what ended that phase. I worked next door to the metal expert that set up the metal punching and bending and we did some custom punch press done lettering and it was a custom tool and the edges curve inwards - I just looked as I had one of those parts here.

 

[Parallax982]

My two cents/guess is that they were not engraved but stamped. The lettering edges are rounded inwards. To engrave that so repeatably would take a computer controlled device with a pretty fine bit for the thin parts of the letters and was maybe not available. I bet they found that the stamping dies wore out or broke quickly and that is what ended that phase. I worked next door to the metal expert that set up the metal punching and bending and we did some custom punch press done lettering and it was a custom tool and the edges curve inwards - I just looked as I had one of those parts here.

Makes sense. People say Marantz was cost cutting when they moved away from the champagne engraved face plate but I imagine they thought of it as manufacturing refinement. I doubt any buyers at the time felt they were getting less. We care about these things not because they're aesthetically different in any significant way. One has to touch the face to know it's engraved and the champagne color is very subtle and not necessarily "better". It's just that they're more rare and, therefore, more valuable to collectors. Back then, we'd have had no thought that these things would be collectors items 50+ years in the future. We'd have been buying them for what they did.

People back then listening to us might think us insane. As if we were buying a hammer and worrying about minute differences in the wrapping on the handle. They'd say "Who cares? It's a hammer. It drives nails."

 

[DRozell]

Here is a link to the catalogs:
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/marantz/stereo-receivers.shtml

The earliest discussions on "champagne" color that I've found is 2004-2008. It seems that both "gold" and "champagne" was being used to describe the color. Later in around 2011 to present it seems "champagne" become the dominant term used to describe the color of these face plates.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/marantz-faceplate-finishes-hues.22160/ [2004]
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...-marantz-similiar-to-the-kenwood-story.61246/ [Feb. 2006]
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/marantz-faceplates-color.154495/ [March 2008]
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/marantz-2230-miracle-102nd-unit-ever-made.174520/ [July 2008]
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/marantz-receivers-turn-golden-with-age.92773/ [Dec. 2006]

I think the term "engraved" followed a similar route, I found a few mentions in earlier listings that described it as "machined", "stamped", "graver", "etched" or "recessed". I think "engraved" just seem to catch on as the agreed upon term for this feature, not necessarily an accurate description of the manufacturing method. This was also a feature in earlier models (see July 2008 link below) so no surprise it was used on the first 2220-2270 models and then I assume dropped.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/engraved-faceplate-or-not-engraved.249412/ [Sept 2009]
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/what-does-engraved-really-mean.176794/ [July 2008]

I also just found a 1969 dealer letter (see attached file) that describes the "famous Marantz exclusives" .... "and deep-etched front-panel"... It is also mentioned in the 1968 catalog for the Model 7T which also mentions "photo-etched front panel". In the same catalog for the Model 15 it mentions the "gold-anodized face front panel" to match the model 7T preamp and Model 10B tuner. Also found a 1974 catalog that lists the Model 19 with gold-anodized face panel. See next link for a clear picture of the model 19 gold-anodized face plate and silver knobs.

https://www.marantz.com/en-us/world-of-marantz/finer-things-model-19.html

So it looks like the gold-anodized was dropped for some models but not all.

Now it appears that the engraving (maybe I should say stamped instead) was common on most Marantz units from 1968-1972 until it was dropped in 1972 (except for the TOTL units) after cost cutting was implemented, or as suggested by others intentional design changes. The gold anodized was also used on earlier units during the same time peried (1968-1972) and was then dropped on some units as part of the same cost cutting/design change. All of my thoughts about the champagne color variation being caused by manufacturing issues is nullified by this information. Gold-anodized face panels (face-plates) were used from at least 1968 and continued on to at least 1974 but dropped in 1972 for most units.

https://www.marantz.com/en-us/world-of-marantz/finer-things-model-19.html [Model 19 looks very gold in this link, compare the face plate color to the knobs]

After my last post yesterday and thinking about the color variations overnight I think the simplest explanation for the variation in color is age related changes. For those that have an obvious gold tint it is probably nicotine related (I have some equipment here from a smokers home and I swore everything was gold plated until I started cleaning). For those with a really light tint and easily mistaken as "silver" versions (I think mine is close to this), sun fading. General aging could account for other shades

More research should be done to clearly define the models and years these features were manufactured.

I found very little related to the 20th anniversary issue. The Sept. 2009 link above mentions the 20th anniversary idea. Here is a quote from that thread:

" The best I've come up with so far is from a friend who knew Saul, Sid and Richard. He "kinda" remembers it as something to do with Marantz's 20th anniversary. The 2270 came out around 1971-72 and Marantz started business around 1952 so the math would be correct yet they don't say "limited edition" or "anniversary anything" on them.

And similar information from Nov. 2009 link:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...-than-others-i-have-seen.264286/#post-3206473 [Nov. 2009]

"Do "all" of the earliest 2230/45/70's have the engraved face plates or was it an option? I have a tech that used to know Saul and Sid. When I asked him about this he thought these had something to do with Marantz's 20th anniversary but he only vaguely recalls and isn't positive."

So far that is all I've found for the 20th anniversary story line. You would think more could be found if it was truly something Marantz wanted to celebrate.

Anyway, it seems most of what I have concluded in my few hours of research has been stated before, in multiply threads going all the way back to 2004. It seems to me that over time, the story line started to solidify around a 20th anniversary edition, 4000 units each for the different models introduced in 1972 with engraved lettering and then it all changed.

In reality, engraved and gold-anodized face plates were common features from 1968 (and maybe earlier) until 1972 for most models with it being retained on the TOTL models to at least 1974 (Model 19) for a while. Cost-cutting or intentional design change in 1972 resulted in the engraving and gold-anodized face plates being changed for most models but not all. Other changes were made at the same time. No anniversary special editions, and no silver engraved variation. At least this is the story that makes the most sense to me given what I have found to date. Maybe others can find documented information that helps clarify this story further and maybe expand it.

 

[Parallax982]

Here is a link to the catalogs:
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/marantz/stereo-receivers.shtml

The earliest discussions on "champagne" color that I've found is 2004-2008. It seems that both "gold" and "champagne" was being used to describe the color. Later in around 2011 to present it seems "champagne" become the dominant term used to describe the color of these face plates.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/marantz-faceplate-finishes-hues.22160/ [2004]
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...-marantz-similiar-to-the-kenwood-story.61246/ [Feb. 2006]
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/marantz-faceplates-color.154495/ [March 2008]
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/marantz-2230-miracle-102nd-unit-ever-made.174520/ [July 2008]
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/marantz-receivers-turn-golden-with-age.92773/ [Dec. 2006]

I think the term "engraved" followed a similar route, I found a few mentions in earlier listings that described it as "machined", "stamped", "graver", "etched" or "recessed". I think "engraved" just seem to catch on as the agreed upon term for this feature, not necessarily an accurate description of the manufacturing method. This was also a feature in earlier models (see July 2008 link below) so no surprise it was used on the first 2220-2270 models and then I assume dropped.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/engraved-faceplate-or-not-engraved.249412/ [Sept 2009]
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/what-does-engraved-really-mean.176794/ [July 2008]

I also just found a 1969 dealer letter (see attached file) that describes the "famous Marantz exclusives" .... "and deep-etched front-panel"... It is also mentioned in the 1968 catalog for the Model 7T which also mentions "photo-etched front panel". In the same catalog for the Model 15 it mentions the "gold-anodized face front panel" to match the model 7T preamp and Model 10B tuner. Also found a 1974 catalog that lists the Model 19 with gold-anodized face panel. See next link for a clear picture of the model 19 gold-anodized face plate and silver knobs.

https://www.marantz.com/en-us/world-of-marantz/finer-things-model-19.html

So it looks like the gold-anodized was dropped for some models but not all.

Now it appears that the engraving (maybe I should say stamped instead) was common on most Marantz units from 1968-1972 until it was dropped in 1972 (except for the TOTL units) after cost cutting was implemented, or as suggested by others intentional design changes. The gold anodized was also used on earlier units during the same time peried (1968-1972) and was then dropped on some units as part of the same cost cutting/design change. All of my thoughts about the champagne color variation being caused by manufacturing issues is nullified by this information. Gold-anodized face panels (face-plates) were used from at least 1968 and continued on to at least 1974 but dropped in 1972 for most units.

https://www.marantz.com/en-us/world-of-marantz/finer-things-model-19.html [Model 19 looks very gold in this link, compare the face plate color to the knobs]

After my last post yesterday and thinking about the color variations overnight I think the simplest explanation for the variation in color is age related changes. For those that have an obvious gold tint it is probably nicotine related (I have some equipment here from a smokers home and I swore everything was gold plated until I stated cleaning). For those with a really light tint and easily mistaken as "silver" versions (I think mine is close to this), sun fading. General aging could account for other shades

More reseach should be done to clearly define the models and years these features were manufactured.

I found very little related to the 20th anniversary issue. The Sept. 2009 link above also mentions the 20th anniversary idea. Here is a quote from that thread:

" The best I've come up with so far is from a friend who knew Saul, Sid and Richard. He "kinda" remembers it as something to do with Marantz's 20th anniversary. The 2270 came out around 1971-72 and Marantz started business around 1952 so the math would be correct yet they don't say "limited edition" or "anniversary anything" on them.

And similar information from Nov. 2009 link:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...-than-others-i-have-seen.264286/#post-3206473 [Nov. 2009]

"Do "all" of the earliest 2230/45/70's have the engraved face plates or was it an option? I have a tech that used to know Saul and Sid. When I asked him about this he thought these had something to do with Marantz's 20th anniversary but he only vaguely recalls and isn't positive."

So far that is all I've found for the 20th anniversary story line. You would think more could be found if it was truely something Marantz wanted to celebrate.

Anyway, it seems most of what I have concluded in my few hours of research has been stated before, in multiply threads going all the way back to 2004. It seems to me that over time, the story line started to solidify around a 20th anniversary edition, 4000 units each for the different models introduced in 1972 with engraved lettering and then it all changed.

In reality, engraved and gold-anodized face plates were common features from 1968 (and maybe earlier) until 1972 for most models with it being retained on the TOTL models to at least 1974 (Model 19) for a while. Cost-cutting opr intentional design change in 1972 resulted in the engraving and gold-anodized face plates being changed for most models but not all. Other changes were made at the same time. No anniversay special editions, and no silver engraved variation. At least this is the story that makes the most sense to me given what I have found to date. Maybe others can find documented information that help clarify this story and maybe expand it.

You have REALLY done your homework. Thanks for the links. Unfortunately, HiFi Engine isn't taking new registrations so I couldn't see the manuals. But I've found them elsewhere and I'm pretty sure I have them downloaded somewhere.

It's funny; I have three Marantz receivers. At the time I bought them, I didn't know anything about the champagne or engraved phenomena. Still, both my 2270 (an American model) and my 2230 (with a European serial number), both purchased through Craigslist, are in the first 4,000 of their runs and so have the engraved champagne plates. My 2235, which was purchased on ebay, does not.

 

[rBuckner]

You have REALLY done your homework. Thanks for the links. Unfortunately, HiFi Engine isn't taking new registrations so I couldn't see the manuals. But I've found them elsewhere and I'm pretty sure I have them downloaded somewhere.

It's funny; I have three Marantz receivers. At the time I bought them, I didn't know anything about the champagne or engraved phenomena. Still, both my 2270 (an American model) and my 2230 (with a European serial number), both purchased through Craigslist, are in the first 4,000 of their runs and so have the engraved champagne plates. My 2235, which was purchased on ebay, does not.

Maybe the 2235 came later. Checking... that model is listed as being made in 1975-6.

 

[icko30]

Well I was interested in production process also. Found some video on yt. You can find for yourself why this etching was quite a job and maybe just maybe the demand was skyrocket and with "stamping" the faceplate they not only cut costs but also fasten up production. Can anyone calculate how many units were produced only in one year? Maybe just for 22xx series. I think it could be realy impressive number. Not that I mention the logistics and size of production plants...

 

[DRozell]

https://www.amkproducts.com/marantz/marantz-production-numbers/

 

[DRozell]

If you look at a 1978 catalog you can see that they thought 25 years was worth a mention.

 

[icko30]

2010 1972-73...56735 units ; average 56735 per year
2015 1972-75...54430 units ; average 13607 per year
2220 1972-74...58072 units ; average 29036 per year
2215 1971-73...776 units ; average 388 per year
2230 1972-74...185266 units ; average 92633 per year
2245 1971-76...82721 units ; average 16544 per year
2270 1971-75...84484 units ; average 21121 per year

total 230064 units per year.Excluded separates.

Numbers for 2215 are strange to me and may vary as also others might not be correct.
If we round number on 200 000 /per year I can not even imagine what kind of production plant (factory)
if you want, it has to be.
Stunning.


Sources:

Marantz's Legendary Audio Classics - The Collector's Pages

Marantz Production Numbers — AMK Products, Inc.

1954 – 1980 Luckily Marantz serial numbers include the information needed to calculate production numbers and more ! There are two basic patterns. 1. Earlier units proceed in pure sequential order starting from zero or a specific starting number as follows: 0 for models 10, 24 1000 for 1...

www.amkproducts.com

classicaudio.com..... All About..... Marantz

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/marantz.shtml?category=stereo-receiver

Marantz Kataloge und Prospekte

 

[Parallax982]

Maybe the 2235 came later. Checking... that model is listed as being made in 1975-6.

Yes, that's true, and I'm sure it's why it's silver with silkscreen lettering.

 

[onemug]

If you look at a 1978 catalog you can see that they thought 25 years was worth a mention.

Curious as to the color(s) of the speaker wire attachments on the back of 'your' 2270. Are they all black, or black and red?

 

[DRozell]

All black on mine.

I had another thought last night. Has anybody compared the panel color of the front to the back? If sun fading is a cause, then I would think the back should be close to the original. Not sure if you could anodize a color on only one side. I might have to open mine up tomorrow and take a look.

 

[Parallax982]

Black speaker terminals on my champagne engraved 2230 and 2270. Red and black on my silkscreened silver 2235, just as one would expect. But the 2235 sounds sweet. It's a rare model so there aren't a lot of opinions one can find online. I'm curious to see how it compares to the 2230 once I have it serviced and at least the power board recapped.

 

[Autobahn]

Found another Champange engraved to add here. Serial number 1157. I would call it a Barn find. But it is restoreable! Before restoring I wanted to fix any major faults. The left amp was bad. Outputs blown. The left amp was a newer one also not matching the right one. Which I can tell is original. Placed an add in Bartertown. Want both amps to be the same.

Michael

 

[icko30]

I missed one European today. Seller broke the agreement. I made the highest offer, but I think he was not really trying to sale. Waste of time.