I noticed that someone on the 'Bay, is selling a brand new '2100 Chassis, complete with lettering.- Expensive, though...
MC2105 auto former
- Thread starter Larswork
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damacman
Resident Psycho
The pandemic changed everything ...Not all that long ago, decent serviceable MC2100s were selling for barely more than the derelict "parts" unit on eBay. What a different world we live in.
baeron
Lunatic Member
Much to my surprise, the one lung '2100 beater on the 'Bay, went for $389.00.
Too much for too many unknowns, for me to jump in, for what would be a big project.
My guess on bidding price was very close.
Pio1980
AK Member
Mac prices were already way up before then, I couldn't find a mate reasonable for an MC50, I quit looking.
I'm not sure it was all pandemic. I had a lot of older audio gear, most of it the collectible models and manufacturers, and started selling it in 2016 when I became interested in it again. I keep a spreadsheet, as I'm that obsessive guy, which includes models/condition/details/serial-numbers/etc. as well as selling prices and dates.
Mostly I see a fairly steady increase in prices through this 6-7 years of sell-off, no real obvious humps. What I see more of than a general increase, is the increase in collecting & value of lower-end models (for example a Pioneer SX-780 was a $20 fixer-upper back then, now people actually spend real money on them) showing me that the top models are too expensive and too hard to get and people are therefore settling for lower models.
There's still a hierarchy (if that is the right word) where the top models are bringing huge money, but the 2nd, 3rd, 4th down the line have been catching up a lot.
I sold (for example) my MC2105 in Sep of 2018 for $1200 which wasn't a record-breaker. Now 4-1/2 years later it would be worth what, $2,000 for a nice one? My Pioneer SX-1250 sold for $1,900 in April of 2019 and now is worth a bit more, but again not double. Another example pre-pandemic would be my JBL L100As selling for $3,250 in September of 2018, today they're not worth much more than that.
VIntage audio has been growing in value fairly steadily for the past 7 years (or more) which is one reason I've sold most of my old gear. The TOTL stuff has exploded in value, also the very iconic collector pieces (ex: the JBL Century speakers) and of course well-respected tube gear. How long this will last I don't know, as I've been reading people here talking about it being on the brink of collapse for several years (but it hasn't).
Last month a pair of MC50 claimed to be operationally sound with nice cosmetics sold on the auction site for under $1,200. If willing to go $500 +/- for a single, that should be doable. Have you ever considered posting a notice in the WTB subforum? AK member-to-member prices are usually reasonable with a better level of trustworthiness.
Pio1980
AK Member
Thnx for the suggestion, but that ship has sailed with time tho I still have the solitary. Still too much gear, too little time, and I should start seriously divesting for the inevitably of no longer being able to deal with it.
Nonetheless, I still enjoy just having an example of their vintage product around, remembering the excitement of the transition to the new transistor technology.
I've been hearing the same thing in collector car circles as well. Frankly I think it's wishful thinking on the part of those who missed the boat. It is not so much that values have intrinsically increased; rather it's a reflection of the decreased purchasing power of the dollar. Some have also cited the collapse of the NASDAQ in 2000 and the housing bubble in 2008 but those were due to "irrational exuberance" rather than fundamental monetary conditions of weakened currency.
Given that the M1 has grown an unprecedented 4x in just three years, the question is not why prices are as high as they are now, but why are they not higher?
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Pio1980
AK Member
Re, cars;
Quoting Hannibal Lector, "we covet what we see" but can't have.
Shifting demographics greatly affect most vintage car values, 1930s cars are mostly on the decline with the folk who coveted them declining and selling their acquisitions in a shrinking market, and resto-mods being valued more than originality by the newer demographic. Muscle cars have replaced them in desirability as being the familiar attraction to their demographic.
We see this in the antique and vintage collectables market with shifting demographics and trends. Aside from the classic evergreen items like fine art and certain vintage automobiles (Duesenberg, Molsheim Bugatti, ect) there is a peak corresponding to demographic interest, followed by a decline in a shrinking buyers market.
I sold a couple of vintage electric guitars, in anticipation of the slow Baby Boomer 'die off' (Which includes, me)
It turns out, that the market started to spike again, soon after.
Hindsight, is always, 20-20..
While there's certainly a good deal of truth behind "shifting demographics" playing a role in the values of collector cars within certain eras, but even then it isn't always that simple. Over the last ten years there's been an increasing market preference for the finest examples in unrestored original condition across the board. For example, an early '50s Cadillac Sedan is a car that could be said to have limited collector interest due to the demographic factor, yet last month a near pristine original 1953 Fleetwood Sixty Special with only 9,000 miles just sold last month on Bring a Trailer for a record breaking price of $101,000 (+ 5% buyer's fee). Same car in presentable #3 driver condition normally sells around $20k.
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There are always outliers in the data, and I believe that exceptional examples will always buck the trend. Brass-era cars are certainly not in the crosshairs of the current generation, yet exceptional ones continue to climb in value faster than the curve. OTOH that seven-figure Hemi-'Cuda sale also shows strength in the boomer buyer market. There is no shortage in supply of slab-side Chevy pickups and Blazers, yet their price delta seems to far outstrip the price increase in (for example) Hudson Hornets. Those who coveted Hudson Hornets are no longer buying so the demaind isn't as strong.
This is why the Pioneer SX-1980 or the Sansui G-33000 go so high today, they are 1970 products that few could afford back then, but we are in our 60s now and have the disposable income to seek out these low-production units from our teens. I hate to admit, but tubes were obsolete when I was a teenager and until fairly recently all but forgotten. If not for the resurgence of tube audio in the past decade I don't think that vintage tube sets would be growing in value much today either as those who wanted them new are in their mid-late 70s. Now that new tube sets are around, maybe the vintage tubes will get a second peak? What's the average age of MC2105 owners? Do you remember them new? I was a bigger fan of the 2205 (new when I got serious about audio) but a 2505 for less money can scratch that itch for many of us as it looks and sounds similar. I think that the demographic shift mentioned will pull these older metered McIntosh units up for a while yet.
Hard to tell what the future is, and I guess this is so off-topic it's sure good that the OP has resolved his autoformer problem!
This is why the Pioneer SX-1980 or the Sansui G-33000 go so high today, they are 1970 products that few could afford back then, but we are in our 60s now and have the disposable income to seek out these low-production units from our teens. I hate to admit, but tubes were obsolete when I was a teenager and until fairly recently all but forgotten. If not for the resurgence of tube audio in the past decade I don't think that vintage tube sets would be growing in value much today either as those who wanted them new are in their mid-late 70s. Now that new tube sets are around, maybe the vintage tubes will get a second peak? What's the average age of MC2105 owners? Do you remember them new? I was a bigger fan of the 2205 (new when I got serious about audio) but a 2505 for less money can scratch that itch for many of us as it looks and sounds similar. I think that the demographic shift mentioned will pull these older metered McIntosh units up for a while yet.
Hard to tell what the future is, and I guess this is so off-topic it's sure good that the OP has resolved his autoformer problem!
damacman
Resident Psycho
2020 was unique in so many ways. The resale price of collectibles went to all time highs as many had lots of time on their hands and plenty of disposable income as a result of zero overhead associated with reporting to work.
I'm in the automotive business. Our business more than doubled from end of 2019 to end of 2021. Many enthusiasts used the time to work on a project vehicle. Fortunately, I had predicted this accurately and purchased 5x the inventory we would normally have purchased beginning February of 2020. This positioned us well.
For audio enthusiasts, many got online and found that piece they'd been longing for. Price was of little concern. That has continued to present day. The meat and potatoes will always be the units which offer the best value as it pertains to ownership. An MA6200 for example - I used to pay $3-500 for them in the '90s, the upper included the cabinet. The MC2205 - 200wpc with meters ... that's a sweet spot! MC250s ... I used to turn them down as they were just butt ugly. I remember a gentleman offering me a mint MC50 for $100 - he used it with a C26 and a MC250 with three Klipsch speakers ... I passed on all of it for super reasonable money. Now these pieces are the way in and their prices are a reflection of so many competing to buy them.
I'm in the automotive business. Our business more than doubled from end of 2019 to end of 2021. Many enthusiasts used the time to work on a project vehicle. Fortunately, I had predicted this accurately and purchased 5x the inventory we would normally have purchased beginning February of 2020. This positioned us well.
For audio enthusiasts, many got online and found that piece they'd been longing for. Price was of little concern. That has continued to present day. The meat and potatoes will always be the units which offer the best value as it pertains to ownership. An MA6200 for example - I used to pay $3-500 for them in the '90s, the upper included the cabinet. The MC2205 - 200wpc with meters ... that's a sweet spot! MC250s ... I used to turn them down as they were just butt ugly. I remember a gentleman offering me a mint MC50 for $100 - he used it with a C26 and a MC250 with three Klipsch speakers ... I passed on all of it for super reasonable money. Now these pieces are the way in and their prices are a reflection of so many competing to buy them.
Tne non-metered McIntosh amps were the "ugly ducklings" of the McIntosh line and I too remember them as being worth so little that they weren't worth fixing or restoring. They still lag behind the metered units, but I'd guess their increase in value (in multiples) outstrips all but the most collectible metered units, which are still climbing as well.
Pio1980
AK Member
My nostalgic regard for Mac rests mainly in the distinctive naked amps, the boxed-up amps didn't have the same distinction or appeal for me.
That's why the MC50 is still here.
Pio1980
AK Member
"Patina" is the latest trend, tho a well-preserved cared-for low mileage example will always be a main attraction.
Strange how the chassis style SS McIntosh amplifiers are regarded "ugly ducklings" but never their tube counterparts. With the cages installed, they're not that different except for the squared off transformers. Recently McIntosh has revived the chassis style for certain integrated models and they seem to be selling well. Perhaps the acceptance for these units may trickle down to these previously unloved earlier models. The most ironic part of all is that initially, McIntosh had reservations about the new glass faced models and predicted the earlier MC250 would outsell the MC2505 by 3 to 1 yet the opposite happened.