McIntosh mc3500 reissue

[radioactive]

McIntosh revives the amplifier that powered Woodstock | Digital Trends

McIntosh created the amp that powered the Woodstock music fest 54 years ago, and now you can buy a modern-day version -- for $15,000.

www.digitaltrends.com

 

[Nyjblbob]

A great little history lesson. I thought they used the 2300 SS amps. Pretty sure Altec VOT's.
While I was too young 15 yrs old, to go to the 69 Woodstock, My Father wouldn't let me go.
Shoulda just went anyway and taken the Lumps.
I did go to the 94, 25th year anniversary Woodstock Reunion in Saugerties NY.
To this day the Biggest Loudest, and Best Concert I ever went to.
6 Massive almost 100' tall towers each with its own Huge Diesel Generator.
That’s not even counting the Massive system on the huge Stage

 

[jlovda]

I'm slowly losing my interest in the brand. It's for the Bentley crowd.

 

[w3jn]

I don't think it's all that unreasonable given the probably limited run. Amortizing the tooling and design over perhaps 100-200 units + profit.... not something I'm interested in however.

 

[twiiii]

They used both but I don't remember the numbers. I know Gordon Gow had to pull some 2300's off the production line to fill the requirements that Hannon sound required. They used big Altec Theatre speakers not the small A-7 and A5 variety. They only made 193 as I remember, We sold 5 and I used three for Live PA concerts. LOng horns short horns and woofers. Normally 8 515's in 210 LF enclosures. and 1003B with wye throats and 288 C drivers and 203B long throw horns with single 288C drivers. Used 275's for Altec and JBL floor monitors. 2105's and 2100 would over heat and shut down at the worst times. 2300's ate diaphragms. I much preferred the later 2205's and 2500's with Power Guard. No blown diaphragm's that way.

 

[twiiii]

MAC is not for the Bently crowd it is for those of us who want to make a smart investment for great sound over a long period. You just have to know when to buy and sell. I will say this is not the time to be buying new with all the inflation. That ship sailed during the second year of Covid. I made some great deals during the pandemic. 30 and 40% off in some cases with strong trade in values too. Traded a 206 on a phased out 207 and bought two MC 830's very well discounted as demo units with a full warranty. also got a pair of XRT 28's pre-owned but lke new for 75% off with no tax. A friend got his pair for $66% off. He made a heck of a deal on a MC 152 and a C-48, and got great money for his ML-2's, C-28 and MC 2205 that he sold on consignment. He had his stuff for 40 years. I bought my first 207 for 16% off and the second one for 25 % off and I got more money than what I paid for my MC 206 in trade. PLus I didn't have to Pay any sales tax. I admit shipping on the speakers from New York was a bit stiff. Got 50% of on a MArk Levinson turntable and 40% off on a Dynavector cartridge. Saved a bunch of money on a slightly used AM-FM MAC tuner, too. If you buy from a great dealer that has a great reputation and an outstanding repair department you come way out ahead. Audio Classics is the place to buy. HAs been since 1989.

 

[SaturationPt]

I think that you make a good point @twiiii in that for those who can’t (or won’t) spend the money for new, used McIntosh (and other quality audio) can present a good value at a fraction of the new prices. Performance of McIntosh electronics has only incrementally improved over the past few years, and McIntosh gear does tend to last decades, so the strategy is sound.

I have bought new and used, and there are advantages to both. New McIntosh equipment comes with a price premium, but also a warranty (which is non-transferrable) giving piece-of-mind. Of course buying from a good dealer (again @twiiii’s example of AC) you can often get a warranty from the dealer on used gear, and of course demo gear can carry an original manufacturer’s warranty.

Regarding your Bentley crowd comment @jlovda :

I would consider McIntosh to be more of a Mercedes market, a marque that has long served me well. Bentley is very exclusive new, ranges from the excessive luxury (and price) to what many might consider obscene. Used examples from Bentley can also range into near-7-digit prices, nothing the “average guy” can really afford. McIntosh like Mercedes in the used market ranges from used-and-abused gear that is very affordable and worthy of the home-mechanic to develop “sweat-equity” to very collectible enthusiast pieces. New in both cases also covers a range from affordable at the bottom for the average buyer with a preference for slightly higher quality, to the top-of-the-line having features and performance designed for the very affluent and a price to match. True that McIntosh’s TOTL gear, the MC3500 included, has a price that I would consider a bit silly for my uses and the price is more than I’m willing to spend on audio. OTOH, I found the MC462 to be more reasonable for a piece of audio gear that I intend to keep for perhaps 10+ years, much like when I spend a bit more for a new car and keep it for 6-8 years. Sometimes buying something a bit better and amortizing it over more years can cost less than buying a compromise and becoming unhappy with it in two years or such is my experience. Some people will scoff at my purchases and choices, but people who really know me know that I am somewhat frugal, and over time the TCO / Total Cost of Ownership which includes: Purchase price, Operating cost, Maintenance cost, and Residual/Resale will show that sometimes the higher initial price will be offset by other factors. I spreadsheet everything, from Audio to Automobiles, Appliances, Firearms, Boats, ... over the past couple of decades I’ve been able to make a lot of comparisons.

So Bentley crowd? I’ll argue that one, but it certainly is not Kia either. The fact that McIntosh sells some of their more pedestrian offerings (mostly HT really) through Best Buy is an indicator that they intend to keep some of their gear affordable to middle-class enthusiasts, and the OE infotainment in the dashboard of a Fiat/Jeep is another.

 

[TSmith8605]

They used both but I don't remember the numbers. I know Gordon Gow had to pull some 2300's off the production line to fill the requirements that Hannon sound required. ...

That would be hard to do since Woodstock was the summer of 1969 and the MC2300 did not appear until 1971. The MC3500 ran from 1968 until 1971.

You may be thinking of a subsequent (1973) Grateful Dead concert at Watkins Glen when an additional 5 MC2300 amps were needed as the crowd turned out to be bigger than Woodstock's. A roady (Janet Furman <-- see last paragraph at this link) was sent by helicopter from WG to Binghamton on a Saturday where "the owner" opened the McIntosh factory, got 5 MC2300 amps off the line and carried them in his station wagon to the helicopter.

 

[jlovda]

I think that you make a good point @twiiii in that for those who can’t (or won’t) spend the money for new, used McIntosh (and other quality audio) can present a good value at a fraction of the new prices. Performance of McIntosh electronics has only incrementally improved over the past few years, and McIntosh gear does tend to last decades, so the strategy is sound.

I have bought new and used, and there are advantages to both. New McIntosh equipment comes with a price premium, but also a warranty (which is non-transferrable) giving piece-of-mind. Of course buying from a good dealer (again @twiiii’s example of AC) you can often get a warranty from the dealer on used gear, and of course demo gear can carry an original manufacturer’s warranty.

Regarding your Bentley crowd comment @jlovda :

I would consider McIntosh to be more of a Mercedes market, a marque that has long served me well. Bentley is very exclusive new, ranges from the excessive luxury (and price) to what many might consider obscene. Used examples from Bentley can also range into near-7-digit prices, nothing the “average guy” can really afford. McIntosh like Mercedes in the used market ranges from used-and-abused gear that is very affordable and worthy of the home-mechanic to develop “sweat-equity” to very collectible enthusiast pieces. New in both cases also covers a range from affordable at the bottom for the average buyer with a preference for slightly higher quality, to the top-of-the-line having features and performance designed for the very affluent and a price to match. True that McIntosh’s TOTL gear, the MC3500 included, has a price that I would consider a bit silly for my uses and the price is more than I’m willing to spend on audio. OTOH, I found the MC462 to be more reasonable for a piece of audio gear that I intend to keep for perhaps 10+ years, much like when I spend a bit more for a new car and keep it for 6-8 years. Sometimes buying something a bit better and amortizing it over more years can cost less than buying a compromise and becoming unhappy with it in two years or such is my experience. Some people will scoff at my purchases and choices, but people who really know me know that I am somewhat frugal, and over time the TCO / Total Cost of Ownership which includes: Purchase price, Operating cost, Maintenance cost, and Residual/Resale will show that sometimes the higher initial price will be offset by other factors. I spreadsheet everything, from Audio to Automobiles, Appliances, Firearms, Boats, ... over the past couple of decades I’ve been able to make a lot of comparisons.

So Bentley crowd? I’ll argue that one, but it certainly is not Kia either. The fact that McIntosh sells some of their more pedestrian offerings (mostly HT really) through Best Buy is an indicator that they intend to keep some of their gear affordable to middle-class enthusiasts, and the OE infotainment in the dashboard of a Fiat/Jeep is another.

My relationship with Mcintosh is with used units from the last 70's through the 90's. I have not paid more than, I believe, about $1400 for any of the pieces I have refurbished. Most about $1,000. The 2205's and 2125's I loved to work on are now out of reach. 352'a and 452's are just dreams. Mercedes or Bentley's....it doesn't matter. I cannot even afford a 2120 in nice condition now.

 

[SaturationPt]

Fair enough. I also remember walking away from a 4-speed V-12 Jag E-Type for $1,200, a Superbird standing rusting by the road, ... met a guy who bought his Lamborghini P400S Miura from a junkyard, ... stuff gets popular and goes up in price.

 

[twiiii]

THe problem with Mercedes is they have to many failures and comebacks. Thay are not the same company they were back in the 60's and 70's. BAck when Davie O'brien was alive he referred to Mcintosh as the Rolls Royce of High Fi components. I agreed back then and I agree now. IT's all about long term performance, service after the sale, and proven performance that satisfies.

Yes some models were not satisfying for me in the past, but MAC always gave choices that have satisfied me over many decades. My MPI_4, MC 2505, MR-80 and MR-78. C`-34 and MC 207's for instance. Others include XRT 28's, MQ-107, MVP 891 and MCD 550. I had my MCD 7005 for almost 30 years as I did my C-29. The C-28 was a bust as were the MC 2100, 2200, 2250 etc. But the 7200 and 7100 were just great. Its not the amps were distasteful my speakers just worked better with tube amps and Direct coupled SS amps. Still do now used in the HT system. THe XRT 28's work great with MC 830's and I don't need a crane to lift MC 601 or 611's. If I were in a smaller room maybe an old 7200 I once owned would be perfect for My Xrt 28's at 4 ohms. 542 watts peak as I remember per channel. I know the 830's reach way over 600 with out the power guard flashing.

 

[SaturationPt]

I would expect that comment about Mercedes (or any other expensive marque) from a person who doesn’t own one, and even among owners there are outliers that had that a bad experience (I did with a previous dealer). Most of those naysayers I’ve met have either never owned one or only owned a used one that was someone else’s neglected problem child, never new. There is a sayiing among Porsche owners (and applies to many others) that there is nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche. Again it compares well with McIntosh though and as my 13th Mercedes makes it into the 100,000mile club with nothing but fluids and filters, one set of tires and a warranty visit for minor wind-noise from the sunroof when new. I can say that your claim simply isn’t true. There are always people who will claim that any company makes crap because a friend of a BIL’s second-cousin had one and it was terrible, we’ve read bad reviews here also about McIntosh gear that had problems and was returned/serviced multiple times, owners that are not happy with the dealer, will never buy again etc. It happens. I can also tell you that whether it’s Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Mercedes-Benz, McIntosh, when you spend more for something that is marketed at the higher-end you expect more. I have had two US-made SUVs in the past 3 years, and both of them have been crap and both have had to make it to the dealer in limp-mode at least once. For them I accept that making it to the destination and keeping me warm and dry is the goal, for my more expensive cars they go to the dealer if there is the slightest rattle. The expectation is not linear and the “quality surveys” etc. are skewed by this different expectation. The same with McIntosh: If there’s a blemish in the rear panel printing isn’t perfect, I’ll be having it corrected. On my Japanese HT stuff? It just has to work and a scuff on the faceplate doesn’t really matter.

Rolls-Royce as a McIntosh comparison? They were never known for reliability nor for low-maintenance, I only know two people who bought them new and the annual service would melt most people’s credit cards, just the scheduled maintenance, McIntosh is built to be maintenance-free (well, except for tube-gear) and reliable. It is also not in that exclusive market that RR occupies, both of the owners I know also have private jets and 100’+ Motoryachts, Mercedes people live in normal neighborhoods and fly commercial, their most common vehicles don’t cost much more than a Cadillac or Corvette. It’s simply a choice. There are audio brands that are far more exclusive than McIntosh and I’d compare more to Rolls Royce. McIntosh isn’t affordable to all, neither is a new Chevy Silverado. McIntosh is however attainable to most middle-class people in their later years with the children moved out, who have paid off their homes and want to spoil themselves with something special, and the TOTL McIntosh more of the traditional Doctor’s system (I don’t know any Physicians who have owned a new Rolls-Royce, but several with McIntosh systems).

I doubt that neither you nor David ever owned a Rolls-Royce or Bently, but you do own McIntosh equipment. See my point?

Let’s just say that it’s a Cadillac and be happy with that comparison.

 

[jayvis]

I would expect that comment about Mercedes (or any other expensive marque) from a person who doesn’t own one, and even among owners there are outliers that had that a bad experience (I did with a previous dealer). Most of those naysayers I’ve met have either never owned one or only owned a used one that was someone else’s neglected problem child, never new. There is a sayiing among Porsche owners (and applies to many others) that there is nothing more expensive than a cheap Porsche. Again it compares well with McIntosh though and as my 13th Mercedes makes it into the 100,000mile club with nothing but fluids and filters, one set of tires and a warranty visit for minor wind-noise from the sunroof when new. I can say that your claim simply isn’t true. There are always people who will claim that any company makes crap because a friend of a BIL’s second-cousin had one and it was terrible, we’ve read bad reviews here also about McIntosh gear that had problems and was returned/serviced multiple times, owners that are not happy with the dealer, will never buy again etc. It happens. I can also tell you that whether it’s Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Mercedes-Benz, McIntosh, when you spend more for something that is marketed at the higher-end you expect more. I have had two US-made SUVs in the past 3 years, and both of them have been crap and both have had to make it to the dealer in limp-mode at least once. For them I accept that making it to the destination and keeping me warm and dry is the goal, for my more expensive cars they go to the dealer if there is the slightest rattle. The expectation is not linear and the “quality surveys” etc. are skewed by this different expectation. The same with McIntosh: If there’s a blemish in the rear panel printing isn’t perfect, I’ll be having it corrected. On my Japanese HT stuff? It just has to work and a scuff on the faceplate doesn’t really matter.

Rolls-Royce as a McIntosh comparison? They were never known for reliability nor for low-maintenance, I only know two people who bought them new and the annual service would melt most people’s credit cards, just the scheduled maintenance, McIntosh is built to be maintenance-free (well, except for tube-gear) and reliable. It is also not in that exclusive market that RR occupies, both of the owners I know also have private jets and 100’+ Motoryachts, Mercedes people live in normal neighborhoods and fly commercial, their most common vehicles don’t cost much more than a Cadillac or Corvette. It’s simply a choice. There are audio brands that are far more exclusive than McIntosh and I’d compare more to Rolls Royce. McIntosh isn’t affordable to all, neither is a new Chevy Silverado. McIntosh is however attainable to most middle-class people in their later years with the children moved out, who have paid off their homes and want to spoil themselves with something special, and the TOTL McIntosh more of the traditional Doctor’s system (I don’t know any Physicians who have owned a new Rolls-Royce, but several with McIntosh systems).

I doubt that neither you nor David ever owned a Rolls-Royce or Bently, but you do own McIntosh equipment. See my point?

Let’s just say that it’s a Cadillac and be happy with that comparison.

Good analogy. Friends thought I was crazy when I bought a new McIntosh MC252. It ended up costing me a total of $250 over the 11 years that I owned it. I've had similar experiences with other McIntosh components over the years. They just keep on performing at a high level and some people know that. As new prices continue to rise, so do the used prices. It doesn't change the quality of the initial investment.

 

[damacman]

Gee … could we get back on topic?

 

[jayvis]

W

Gee … could we get back on topic?

What was it?

 

[w3jn]

Dave O'Brien's car. Which was a classic Corvetter by the way.