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Modern speaker upgrade, please help

If your considering a small bookshelf speaker, and SQ is your priority, you really should check out Reference 3A's Dulcet bookshelf. There's a comparison with Rogers LS3/5a's ($3,000 in the second-hand market) on Chojiro creative forum. It's 12" high, weigh's 15 Lbs and goes down to 48 hz @ -3 db.. and it is still within your $2,000 Budget. Unlike the LS3/5a's the Delcut was designed to provide Near full range sound in a small to med size room while retaining the qualities of a good monitor.

My Reference 3A Veena II's dissapear and every song sound's different. Not Warm, Not bright unless their suposed to. All the great music I've heard 1,000 times before sound's new and exciting. They replace my Pro-22 Monitors that due to a dead room in my new townhome, which absorbs treble like a sponge, diidnt leave a realistic tone, but are a great sounding speaker too in the right room. While I'm using rather expensive gear, IMO the Reference 3A's will still sound good on something like Rega's Brio-R with a good source like your Turntable.
 
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Anyone try the LSA1 Statement's? They seem pretty nice in their own right.

http://www.thelsagroup.com/ Go down to the last speaker on the page.

I found some nice deals under 2k for the Harbeth's. Does anyone run the Harbeth P3ESR with a sub?
 
MWalt said:
I found some nice deals under 2k for the Harbeth's. Does anyone run the Harbeth P3ESR with a sub?
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I used to. I just don't like subs. The HUG (Harbeth User Group) website has information on integrating Harbeth speakers with a sub. The P3ESR is particularly easy to integrate.
 
What, no mention of the wicked awesome Minimus 7....:smoke:
Man, now this is a discussion with a ton of fantastic information about a plethora of wonderful speakers. :thmbsp: (Cerwin Vegas aside....:thumbsdn:)

I will toss my hat into the ring here and simply tell that I am in love with my Audio Note AN-J's...Now new, these do exceed your budget, hell mine too, but can be found occasionally on the used market within that price range. I paid 1600.00 for the pair I own and feel that they were a bargain at that price. They do everything "right" IMHO....

http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/speakers/an-j_01.shtml
 
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richamor said:
I've got a pair waiting patiently in the box at home. I can't wait to listen. Ribbon tweeter and bass response down to 42Hz.
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Let em out and let's get your impression! I am getting less patient by the day!

cableguy said:
What, no mention of the wicked awesome Minimus 7....:smoke:
Man, now this is a discussion with a ton of fantastic information about a plethora of wonderful speakers. :thmbsp: (Cerwin Vegas aside....:thumbsdn:)

I will toss my hat into the ring here and simply tell that I am in love with my Audio Note AN-J's...Now new, these do exceed your budget, hell mine too, but can be found occasionally on the used market within that price range. I paid 1600.00 for the pair I own and feel that they were a bargain at that price. They do everything "right" IMHO....

http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/speakers/an-j_01.shtml
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I'll look for them. You are right about being out of budget new :yes:
 
I also have in mind the new Monitor Audio GX100. Might me a fine speaker...
Mwalt, have you receive the info you wanted from GF ?
 
OK. Here is where I am so far. I am down to the following:

LSA1 Statement's- Pro's: Well built, bass down to 42hz, 88db sensitivity, easy to drive at 6ohms. Aurum Canus ribbon tweeter. Beautiful. My best price $1999.00 a pair.
Cons: resale value?

Harbeth P3ESR- Pro's: They are Harbeth's! Renowned speakers with a nearly cult following. Beautiful workmanship. Great midrange and highs, etc. Easy to drive. Easy to resell by their reputation. Small. My best price is $1795.00.

Cons: If there are any they would be low sensitivity, lack of lower bass response.

Grant Fidelity RBS-1- Pro's: Well built, bass down to 42hz, 87db sensitivity, easy to drive at 8 ohms. 1st order crossover. Great midrange and highs, etc. Good bass response. Most beautiful speaker on my list. My best price $2000 a pair, shipped.

Cons: resale value?

Grant Fidelity MBS-1- Pro's: Well built, bass down to 45hz, 88db sensitivity, easy to drive at 8 ohms. 1st order crossover. Good midrange and highs, but not as great as the RBS-1 or the LS3/5A Studio Monitors. Good bass response. Beautiful speaker. One of the least expensive on my list. My best price $1150 a pair, shipped.

Cons: resale value?

Grant Fidelity LS3/5A Studio Monitors -Pro's: Well built, easy to drive at 8 ohms. Great midrange and highs, etc. The least expensive on my list. My best price $980 a pair, shipped. Simple, sealed enclosure. Small.

Cons: Resale value, especially because they would be scorned as Chinese knockoffs of the original Rogers version. Efficiency - 84db, Max SPL - 100db. Lack of lower bass response.

As a side note, I do have a small sealed, good sounding sub that can augment any of these choices. The sub has variable crossover, phase, and volume. It is easy to integrate into my current system. As a reference, I sometimes use my Rega RS-1's with it, which have a flat response down to 60hz. I need the sub to be happy with their overall sound.
 
The one's I'm most interested in from that list, of which I've only heard the Harbeths, is the RBS-1, but that's just my own needs and curiosity. I'm really curious how this is going to go...looks like a lot of good choices there.

Those Audio Notes that Cable Guy has are supposed to be really nice. I've always wanted to audition a pair of those here.
 
If you like single-driver speakers, I would suggest Omega loudspeakers located in Connecticut. They have monitors and floor-standers available that would easily be within your budget. Louis, the proprietor, can make suggestions if you call him.

I used to own one of his earlier offerings, a monitor based on the 8" Fostex 207E, that worked very well in a tube setup.

Single-drivers with whizzer cones are not to everyone's liking. But Louis has been making changes, and improving the drivers over the years. I don't think he uses any off-the-shelf drivers any more.

Almost all his speakers are high-sensitivity, and present a benign impedance curve to the amplifier over their frequency range.

Also check out AK sponsor Salk Sound. There was thread recently in Audio Circle about a monitor Jim Salk built for a customer: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=102800.0. Well under your budget.
 
JohnVF said:
The one's I'm most interested in from that list, of which I've only heard the Harbeths, is the RBS-1, but that's just my own needs and curiosity. I'm really curious how this is going to go...looks like a lot of good choices there.

Those Audio Notes that Cable Guy has are supposed to be really nice. I've always wanted to audition a pair of those here.
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John, I kind of get the impression that you are not a big Harbeth P3ESR fan like ArtK is. I have read your posts where you referred mostly to your Sony's and your Quad's. Am I mistaken, and if so tell me your pro's and cons on this little speaker. I like the GF RBS-1's also, but I am concerned about a possible resale value. Remember, we talked about going through gear, etc :D

ashok said:
If you like single-driver speakers, I would suggest Omega loudspeakers located in Connecticut. They have monitors and floor-standers available that would easily be within your budget. Louis, the proprietor, can make suggestions if you call him.

I used to own one of his earlier offerings, a monitor based on the 8" Fostex 207E, that worked very well in a tube setup.

Single-drivers with whizzer cones are not to everyone's liking. But Louis has been making changes, and improving the drivers over the years. I don't think he uses any off-the-shelf drivers any more.

Almost all his speakers are high-sensitivity, and present a benign impedance curve to the amplifier over their frequency range.

Also check out AK sponsor Salk Sound. There was thread recently in Audio Circle about a monitor Jim Salk built for a customer: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=102800.0. Well under your budget.
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I will check them out, as I have for all of the great advice I have received on this post. The speakers on the post that you linked look real nicely built.
 
MWalt said:
John, I kind of get the impression that you are not a big Harbeth P3ESR fan like ArtK is. I have read your posts where you referred mostly to your Sony's and your Quad's. Am I mistaken, and if so tell me your pro's and cons on this little speaker. I like the GF RBS-1's also, but I am concerned about a possible resale value. Remember, we talked about going through gear, etc :D
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I wouldn't say that I'm not a fan of the P3esr, I simply can't live with a speaker that small. For what it is and does, its a wonderful speaker, and the finish-work at Harbeth is top notch. They're a class act all the way. When I've auditioned them, its been in a room that was too big for them, and I felt they lacked scale, which disqualifies them for my use, which more demands a larger speaker with more dynamic capability. I heard them once in a smaller room and thought they were a fantastic small monitor. In rooms closer to the size of what my system is in, I've found them to just get a bit lost, and sound small. As for my larger Compact 7s, they're in their boxes in my closet now because I need to get stands of a proper height for them. I'm having issues with them sounding boxy with boomy bass- they simply don't like my room or the stands I'm using them on. BUT, I've heard Compact 7s sound absolutely fantastic elsewhere (dealer in Venice CA), which is why I'm putting more time and money into them. I talk about my Quads and my Sonys because they've been easier to get right. The Quad 63pro that I have are awesome. If they weren't so big, and I just cared about sound, they'd be the most perfect speaker I've ever heard.
 
JohnVF said:
I wouldn't say that I'm not a fan of the P3esr, I simply can't live with a speaker that small. For what it is and does, its a wonderful speaker, and the finish-work at Harbeth is top notch. They're a class act all the way. When I've auditioned them, its been in a room that was too big for them, and I felt they lacked scale, which disqualifies them for my use, which more demands a larger speaker with more dynamic capability. I heard them once in a smaller room and thought they were a fantastic small monitor. In rooms closer to the size of what my system is in, I've found them to just get a bit lost, and sound small. As for my larger Compact 7s, they're in their boxes in my closet now because I need to get stands of a proper height for them. I'm having issues with them sounding boxy with boomy bass- they simply don't like my room or the stands I'm using them on. BUT, I've heard Compact 7s sound absolutely fantastic elsewhere (dealer in Venice CA), which is why I'm putting more time and money into them. I talk about my Quads and my Sonys because they've been easier to get right. The Quad 63pro that I have are awesome. If they weren't so big, and I just cared about sound, they'd be the most perfect speaker I've ever heard.
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That is kind of what I figured. I have seen the pics of ArtK's listening room and the Harbeth's seem perfect for it. He also doesn't concern himself with low bass or high db, listens primarily to jazz and classical, so that makes his speaker of choice logical as well.

I like to be able to achieve high db when I want to. I like good bass response. I also want a nice looking speaker with good resale. That is the biggest reason I am hesitant to buy the RBS-1's or other less known entities. If the RBS-1's were a woman, they would be Kate Upton. The SLA-1 Statements would be Katy Perry. Tough choices, eh?
 
The only reason I recommend the P3ESR is if you are going to be able to live with an LS3/5A clone then why not make it the best. That is arguable but certainly a consensus is that this the best iteration of that design. I started on this thread by not recemmending it because you seemed as though you needed a speaker with more bass response and that would play louder than the P3. If a person can live without deep bass and has a small room it simply doesn't get any better than the P3ESR. That's why it is a top seller where folks generally don't have alot of living space. If you need deeper bass or more scale and volume, then as I've stated from the beginning, any iteration of this design whether it be by Spendor, Gini, Stirling, Chartwell, Grant Fidelity or Rogers is not going to work...it's really that simple.

I've tried more speakers than I can count in my tiny 9x10 space and only one has worked particularly well and that is the Harbeth. My guess is that works because rather than in spite of it's low frequency behavior. It also works much better once I bought Skylan stands for them. It's the only speaker I've used in that room where I can feel the bass. The slow roll off from 75hz to 35hz in that size room allows for you to perceive much greater bass response than there actually is. The speaker would work in a 14x10 room but at that point you are reaching the point where you may want something more...I could live the the P3ESR's in that size room and be happy with them. My 18x14 living room is too much for them...it's that close.

As an aside...when I do feel like some Jimi Hendrix or My Morning Jacket, I don't feel a bit robbed. In my small space these speakers work fine for all genres...again that is so space dependent and also dependent on the listeners expectations.
 
Art K. said:
The only reason I recommend the P3ESR is if you are going to be able to live with an LS3/5A clone then why not make it the best.
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I can concur wholeheartedly with your statement. If I do go the BBC monitor route, the Harbeth P3ESR is my first choice.
 
Mwalt, look like you concern about bass respond and maybe adding a subwoofer to your system. Believe me you wont ever need a subwoofer with the RBS-1, they are that good in bass management. As for the resell value, nothing to worrie about. They are great speaker and are and will be more know over the audiophile community. So you might not have hard time to resell them (Oh and btw you wont).

I can't talk for Harbeth, never had the chance to listing one. But i run my RBS-1 in a large room 14x15feets and i will definitly never add a subwoofer to my setup.

Do you really want to know my best tip : Take the RBS-1 30 days home audition. You wont send them back. (Oh and if you can get a pair of Harbeth for comparaison :))
 
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