For those wishing for a new McIntosh tuner:
https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/new-products/MR89
Larry
https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/new-products/MR89
Larry
MR 89 Tuner
- Thread starter VintageMac
- Start date
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My understanding is the display used in the MR87/88 was discontinued by the manufacturer. It was mentioned last year that what McIntosh had on hand would be the end of the 87.
I can appreciate meters. That said I like the 87/88 tuner style better.
It appears the 89 has lower THD, better SNR and stereo separation. There is the change from RDS to RBDS. You no longer get to look at a polished flywheel of the 87/88.
For the price, I feel these tuners should have the upgraded RCA connections.
An MR12000 would be sweet.. Tubes, handles, larger chassis like the MCD12000..
C12000 paired with a MCD12000 and MR12000 would be quite the site.
I currently have the MR85, MR87 and MR88. Gonna have to think about the MR89.
I can appreciate meters. That said I like the 87/88 tuner style better.
It appears the 89 has lower THD, better SNR and stereo separation. There is the change from RDS to RBDS. You no longer get to look at a polished flywheel of the 87/88.
For the price, I feel these tuners should have the upgraded RCA connections.
An MR12000 would be sweet.. Tubes, handles, larger chassis like the MCD12000..
C12000 paired with a MCD12000 and MR12000 would be quite the site.
I currently have the MR85, MR87 and MR88. Gonna have to think about the MR89.
My MR88 is wonderful, but does not get much use these days.
audiofun_21
Active Member
Product completely misses the mark and is yet another “just to say we have one” completion type of scenario. The 88 and 87 integrated new and old beautifully, and of course the 88 had HD Radio capability. This STILL doesn’t gain that back and now has lost the iconic tuning dial and replaced it with… output meters? Seriously? Much as I love them they’re out of place here.
I'm sure they're incorporated in to the fluorescent display (actually signal strength, noise and multipath) just as they are on the MAC7200 receiver.
What about the MR85? Or MR7084, MR7083, MR7082, MR510, MR500, MR80.
From 1979-1999 none of the above tuners had that dial.
As far as HD & Satellite Radio, FM sounds better.
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audiofun_21
Active Member
If you improve a product to the point you create an expectation of a certain level of innovation, falling backward in feature set (unless the cost has dropped dramatically) is not an attractive proposition. It’s like saying if a new Corvette was introduced that only made 200hp it should be acceptable because corvettes in the 70s and 80s only made that much. Someone at McIntosh cared enough to blend the traditional look and feel of an analog tuning dial system with a thoroughly modern digital chassis… it’s one of those McIntosh “touches” that distinguishes them from everyone else. And the 87 and 88 were absolutely gorgeous as a result. This thing barely looks different than a MA52/5300.
As for FM “sounding better” than HD Radio, that depends heavily on many factors including the quality of the transmission source, the mixing at the head end, distance, transmission power and so on and so forth. When I listen to FM at home (which most people don’t even bother with anymore) I do so more passively. One particular station here where I live has a lousy FM sound quality but despite the digital compression, their HD channel sounds dramatically better and clearer. Lastly, one station here locally also has a really great jazz sub channel in their HD broadcasts that you can’t receive on standard FM.
SomeGeoffGuy
Active Member
This would give me hope if it had HD. Even if I go separates, as is always the dream, going to have to find an MR88 or keep my 6700 just for the HD Radio.
-Geoff
-Geoff
Interestingly enough, when I was first touring the McIntosh Labs many years ago, my guide asked me if I had a tuner. And when I said yes, he asked which one. I told him an MR78. So he told me I’d definitely be interested in something. He took me into a back room and showed me the prototype for Mac’s first *new* tuner with a dial, digital readout, and old-school analog FM display (an MR87?). It was beautiful and I told him so. He then complained that they loved the looks but were still trying to figure out how to get the tuning dial to work with the analog and digital display. I told him Mac fans will love it. He agreed—as in: We know what our customers want. A couple years later, there it was—a gorgeous tuner. Sadly, the MR89 is indistinguishable from a dozen other pieces of Mac in the current lineup.
audiofun_21
Active Member
That’s exactly the kind of passion and pride I’d expect for a product like that. It was likely the 88, as oddly enough that one came first but after the HD Radio components were discontinued the model number was bumped down to 87 before this 89 model was introduced.
I had planned to look for a TM2 for our 6700 (thanks for the heads up on the one at AC, Geoff). But I gotta be honest, between the other tuner thread I resurrected and seeing how… dull(?) this MR89 is and how special the tuning dial system was… I kinda want an 88 now as I feel it will become a collectible and classic piece in the future. But seeing in the other thread that some people got their 88s for as little as 1000 bucks kinda takes the wind out of my sails as I know I’ll never be able to replicate that kind of deal.
Also, I don’t know how long traditional FM will even be around (supported/relevant?). About six or seven years ago, my brother and I were visiting Audio Classics, auditioning McIntosh amps. Richard Modafferi, who lives nearby, came in with a McIntosh tuner he had just updated/fixed for an AC customer, and the three of us started talking.
We then discovered who he was (through AC, we had him modify and update my brother’s MR71 and, as it’s original designer, my MR78). Richard invited us for lunch (his “treat”) and back to his house to hear a new speaker design with an infinite slope crossover he was working on, and to have him give us even more information on the work he had done on our tuners (he keeps meticulous notes on his computer). We declined lunch but said we’d listen to his prototype speakers back at his house.
We spent the afternoon with Richard. Met his wife, a professor. Amazing, dynamic, athletic, interesting guy. Richard was on the Olympic bike team in the ‘60s(?), before, as I recall, a multi bike pileup and career-ending injury shifted his attention to electrical engineering—and eventually tuners and speakers. His new speakers and infinite slope crossover sounded fantastic (much better than the uber-expensive Joseph Audio version he had designed earlier for them and that they had “gifted” to him, rather than paying him for his design work). We talked about a lot of subjects, including the various tuners and radios, some hybrid, tube/SS Frankensteinian Macs, some cheap toy transistors, he had all over the house.
But what was particularly of interest was that, when we pulled into his driveway, I noticed his enormous (50’ / 75’ or taller) professional radio antenna tower was down, lying there next to the driveway. “Did you have a bad storm?” I asked. He explained that, FM being basically dead, he had just taken his antenna down and was dismantling it. My brother and I, who had each recently paid big $ for our Modafferi-modified FM tuners, looked at each other. Our hearts sank. If Richard Modafferi thinks FM radio is dead…
We then discovered who he was (through AC, we had him modify and update my brother’s MR71 and, as it’s original designer, my MR78). Richard invited us for lunch (his “treat”) and back to his house to hear a new speaker design with an infinite slope crossover he was working on, and to have him give us even more information on the work he had done on our tuners (he keeps meticulous notes on his computer). We declined lunch but said we’d listen to his prototype speakers back at his house.
We spent the afternoon with Richard. Met his wife, a professor. Amazing, dynamic, athletic, interesting guy. Richard was on the Olympic bike team in the ‘60s(?), before, as I recall, a multi bike pileup and career-ending injury shifted his attention to electrical engineering—and eventually tuners and speakers. His new speakers and infinite slope crossover sounded fantastic (much better than the uber-expensive Joseph Audio version he had designed earlier for them and that they had “gifted” to him, rather than paying him for his design work). We talked about a lot of subjects, including the various tuners and radios, some hybrid, tube/SS Frankensteinian Macs, some cheap toy transistors, he had all over the house.
But what was particularly of interest was that, when we pulled into his driveway, I noticed his enormous (50’ / 75’ or taller) professional radio antenna tower was down, lying there next to the driveway. “Did you have a bad storm?” I asked. He explained that, FM being basically dead, he had just taken his antenna down and was dismantling it. My brother and I, who had each recently paid big $ for our Modafferi-modified FM tuners, looked at each other. Our hearts sank. If Richard Modafferi thinks FM radio is dead…
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audiofun_21
Active Member
I think that the death of FM radio is about as contentious a subject as the death of the internal combustion engine. Can we all see the “writing on the wall”? Are competing technologies technically “better” in many ways? Sure. And yet, here we are. 100 plus years down the road talking like 2030 is really gonna be the year every major auto maker is gonna be electric and the ICE will be dead. Bold, but unlikely.
Reports of FM’s death have also been floating around for decades. But ironically, it is car audio that has demonstrated nothing that even comes close to the saturation and availability of terrestrial FM. Satellite is the closest we’ve come in this country to a replacement and it’s numbers pale in comparison. It’s not even close. Europe has DAB, but they also STILL have analog FM. Hell, we can’t even get rid of AM for that matter. Talk radio has all but assured its continued survival as well.
So is FM “dead” or dying in terms of the content and variety of formats/styles in most places? That can be more subjectively argued. But the format itself has many good years left to enjoy.
Your story started 6 years ago, as of today there is still burgeoning FM market in my city. How about yours?
Burgeoning? Hmmm. Not so much. Maybe if I lived in Boston. I split my time between NYC and rural Pennsylvania, neither of which has great FM radio (my sources are FM, CDP, and TT). I don’t stream anything. In NYC, the market is too expensive and competitive for much non-commercially viable content. The conservative limitations of NYC radio really surprised me, even in 1985, when I moved there. My FM tuner is now in Pennsylvania, where I have few choices beyond classic rock, religious music, religious or political pundits, shock jocks, NPR, pop music, and bad contemporary C&W. College radio is subpar. My MR78 is pretty, but it doesn’t get used much these days.
audiofun_21
Active Member
agreed. I think we as the enthusiast McIntosh community and even the resellers themselves have fully bought into the approach that if McIntosh puts meters on something it HAS to be good. The clock and the MPC power center are great examples of this. Though at least in those cases the meters have a different function related to the device.
In this case it’s about a triple missed opportunity considering they’re replacing something unique and beautiful in its own right (the tuning scale), end up making the whole thing look generic, and don’t perform any cool tuning related functions. You can tell it’s kind of an afterthought product.
jayvis
Addicted Member
Probably not an afterthought. The Marketing department has either gone all-in on the output meter hysteria which I believe will eventually hurt sales, or have supply chain issues with correct type tuning meters, or they've just gotten complacent and lazy. Some of the recent McIntosh model changes have been on par with decal changes on toy tractors. Putting the same output meters on just about every product you make is trademark overkill. You used to be able to instantly identify the type of McIntosh component by its faceplate. Now they almost look generically the same. And while I'm ranting, the biggest issue I have with this model is the astronomical price. $5,500 for a AM/FM tuner is just sick.
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Joe Mc
New Member
When I heard about the MR89, I was very excited to read the details as I thought they would just offer the MR87 just to say they have one.
But after reading the details, I was disappointed.
The two things I miss are the classic look slide rule dial and the HD function.
I like HD for the rather narrow formats not found on main channel FM. There are two AM stations that are on HD2/3 that I couldn't otherwise hear
at night.
The meters are OK but on a source unit I don't think they're necessary. They are more important on a pre-amp or amp.
I use the meters on my C53 for troubleshooting purposes and cartridge alignment with a test record.
Maybe they'll incorporate these features on a future MR89B or MR90, if I should live so long!
But after reading the details, I was disappointed.
The two things I miss are the classic look slide rule dial and the HD function.
I like HD for the rather narrow formats not found on main channel FM. There are two AM stations that are on HD2/3 that I couldn't otherwise hear
at night.
The meters are OK but on a source unit I don't think they're necessary. They are more important on a pre-amp or amp.
I use the meters on my C53 for troubleshooting purposes and cartridge alignment with a test record.
Maybe they'll incorporate these features on a future MR89B or MR90, if I should live so long!
The HD function hasn’t been around for several years. The MR88 was discontinued over 5 years ago now. The parts required to make them were discontinued. It was $4,500 at that time IIRC.
The MR87 has slowly increased in price in the past five years, like everything. It’s last price was $5,500. It was discontinued because the parts made for the DIGITAL dial/display were discontinued.
The MR89 is the same price as the MR87. If the MR88 was still made you can be assured it would be more expensive.
The MR89 gives nothing up to the most recent tuner, the MR87, than the DIGITAL dial, that everyone likes.
It gains meters which like or not, serve a purpose and supposedly improves on the performance of the outgoing MR87.
I bought an MR87 new. My MR88 came used because it popped up locally for a price I couldn’t pass up.
HD Radio is not all it’s cracked up to be. This is not my first HD tuner, that came way of car stereos 20 years ago. It’s not high definition like many believe HD to mean. The built in XM ready functionality on the MR88 is just that. XM. It uses an old connection, it’s not Sirius/XM. If you truly care for Satellite radio, stream it with your account on a streamer of your choice or add an external Sirius/XM tuner so you can get all the programming. Something you can’t do with the REQUIRED, old, external XM dock for the MR88.
My point is, yes the MR88 does more, but it’s hardly worth any contention over the 87. If I was looking for either and they came up for sale locally, I wouldn’t pass on an 87 and hold out for an 88. Not worth it IMO.
That said, it appears the MR89 will be the better performing tuner of the 3. The MR88 will have the more features of the 3. The MR87 was the most abundant of the 3.
The MR87 has slowly increased in price in the past five years, like everything. It’s last price was $5,500. It was discontinued because the parts made for the DIGITAL dial/display were discontinued.
The MR89 is the same price as the MR87. If the MR88 was still made you can be assured it would be more expensive.
The MR89 gives nothing up to the most recent tuner, the MR87, than the DIGITAL dial, that everyone likes.
It gains meters which like or not, serve a purpose and supposedly improves on the performance of the outgoing MR87.
I bought an MR87 new. My MR88 came used because it popped up locally for a price I couldn’t pass up.
HD Radio is not all it’s cracked up to be. This is not my first HD tuner, that came way of car stereos 20 years ago. It’s not high definition like many believe HD to mean. The built in XM ready functionality on the MR88 is just that. XM. It uses an old connection, it’s not Sirius/XM. If you truly care for Satellite radio, stream it with your account on a streamer of your choice or add an external Sirius/XM tuner so you can get all the programming. Something you can’t do with the REQUIRED, old, external XM dock for the MR88.
My point is, yes the MR88 does more, but it’s hardly worth any contention over the 87. If I was looking for either and they came up for sale locally, I wouldn’t pass on an 87 and hold out for an 88. Not worth it IMO.
That said, it appears the MR89 will be the better performing tuner of the 3. The MR88 will have the more features of the 3. The MR87 was the most abundant of the 3.
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