Never heard reel-reel so have a question
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petehall347
the brandy coffee man
a good reel to reel in theory should sound better than a record .because before the record was made it was mastered on tape .
oki, thnx for clearifying - can I ask if reel-reel tapes are for sale of older recordings ?
goldear
Certifiable Audio Junkie
That's not always true. Most LPs made from the mid 80s onwards had digital masters.
petehall347
the brandy coffee man
whoops yes i stand corrected ...i rarely hear records that were recorded that late on .. must be my age .
Skylab
Watcher of the skies
No offense, but this has NOTHING to do with which format is better. If a given recording was originally made on tape, that is what you start with, for ANY sort of media distribution. The question of whether reel or vinyl sounds better has only to do with which will be truer to the original source, and then of course, the quality of the playback equipment. And there is also the matter of how the LPs or consumer tapes are duplicated. So it can be a complex question to answer.
Further, Reel to reel has lots of "sub-formats". There is the width of the tape, the number of tracks, and the recording speed, all of which matter. Generally, reel to reel has better technical performance than vinyl, and has the potential to sound better - even MUCH better than vinyl. I have quite a few commercial/consumer reel to reel tapes made at 7.5 ips that sound as good, if not better, than vinyl. That said, consumer reel to reel tapes that were recorded at the lowest 3.75 ips speed almost never sound as good as vinyl, to me.
Then there is also the fact that there is still very widespread new vinyl production, and only slightly more than zero new reel to reel tape recordings being released.
FYI, I am a huge fan of Reel to reel. I love listening to reel and have been collecting prerecorded reel tapes, the vast majority of which sound terrific. But it's not a cheap hobby.
steerpike2
Super Member
Most R2R recordings available are either commercial releases from record companies, or recordings ordinary people have done from LPs or Compact discs - all of these are multi-generation involving compromises. The 'Tape Project' type of recordings are not the usual thing one gets to hear.
To REALLY hear what a R2R machine CAN do you need to hear a first generation recording made of a 'live' performance - and made by someone who knows how to place microphones etc.
To REALLY hear what a R2R machine CAN do you need to hear a first generation recording made of a 'live' performance - and made by someone who knows how to place microphones etc.
AnalogDigit
Realistic fan.
Reel to reel offers the best performance recording medium. Some prerecorded tapes sound pretty good recorded at the fastest speeds, but most were produced at the slowest speed which is a shame. A lot of the releases go for big bucks on eBay.
You are better off recording the album on to a good blank open reel tape.
You are better off recording the album on to a good blank open reel tape.
JonL
Lunatic Member
In my experience R2R sounds very similar to vinyl. The advantage is that there won't be any pops or ticks at all, though with care there doesn't have to be much of that on vinyl either. The disadvantage is that the format is more of a pain in the butt to use. I have some recordings on vinyl where I've thought there were mastering deficiencies making the record sound less than ideal. I've sought out reel to reel copies only to find the very same deficiencies on the tape. Where reel to reel shines best is on classical music, where there are often extended passages of very low volume. On these passages even the slightest dirt or defect in the vinyl will be apparent. On a reel to reel, you might hear some hiss but at least it's constant and easier to ignore.
Skylab
Watcher of the skies
Very good point about classical music. I love classical on reel. And you an get some great recordings of wonderful performances for cheap. Rock reels generally cost a lot and are mostly the slower speed, but most classical reels were mostly 7.5 ips and can often be had for $10 on eBay.
BANDWIDTH
Well-Known Member
Agree about pre-recorded tapes on auction sites. The classical works GENERALLY go for less than "rock" format tapes, and they are most often duped at 7.5 ips as opposed to the 3.75 speed prevalent on the other genres.
The exception to this rule is the occasional "safety master" of a classical work - typically done at 15 ips on large reel format - and frequently this would even be 1/2" tape and 2-track. This eliminates the vast bulk of "consumer" RTR machines. These tapes seem to fetch crazy amounts of money. Into the "TAPE PROJECT" realm - at least those are or a known quality. I would be loathe to risk hundreds of dollars on a "safety master" without a return policy - and I've never seen one offered with a return policy yet...
Better to dub a good quality AAD cd (DG, etc.) or from a nice Red Seal vinyl pressing onto a GOOD QUALITY (NOS Maxell, TDK, BASF, QUANTEGY) tape which has been set up for your machine and bulk-erased prior to recording. Do this at 7.5 or 15 ips and the sound will thrill you!
The exception to this rule is the occasional "safety master" of a classical work - typically done at 15 ips on large reel format - and frequently this would even be 1/2" tape and 2-track. This eliminates the vast bulk of "consumer" RTR machines. These tapes seem to fetch crazy amounts of money. Into the "TAPE PROJECT" realm - at least those are or a known quality. I would be loathe to risk hundreds of dollars on a "safety master" without a return policy - and I've never seen one offered with a return policy yet...
Better to dub a good quality AAD cd (DG, etc.) or from a nice Red Seal vinyl pressing onto a GOOD QUALITY (NOS Maxell, TDK, BASF, QUANTEGY) tape which has been set up for your machine and bulk-erased prior to recording. Do this at 7.5 or 15 ips and the sound will thrill you!
In my experience, when using a good deck, a well-recorded (and undamaged) 3.75ips tape will sound about as good as vinyl, while a well-recorded (and undamaged) 7.5ips tape will be significantly better.
FAB1
playing with the big toys
Unless they are 2-track RCAs or Mercs or really almost any 2-trk goes for way more at auction.
My bit of advice to the thread is this - The quality of your r2r experience for the most part is consumerate with how Deep your Pockets are. Both the equipment and the magnetic media.
There have been original classical 2-trk 15ips masters and sub-master on the ebay & most of those were out of my financial ballpark. Tape Project is too rich for my blood as well.
The best sounds that can be affordable are 7.5ips recordings, some factory tapes and home-brews can delight and surprise you.
Trance88
Vintage Furry
I believe high-fidelity reel to reel tape recordings can sound much better than vinyl. Tape is capable of discreet channels unlike vinyl where I've heard that you can hear as much as 20% of each channel in the opposing channel. Tape has no pops or clicks and is capable of higher dynamic range. Sound does not degrade towards the end of a recording like vinyl.
The only things I find vinyl to be superior in is overall durability, ease of use, and random accessible tracks.
The only things I find vinyl to be superior in is overall durability, ease of use, and random accessible tracks.
I've got four big RTRs that haven't made it out of their boxes since moving 7 years ago, but all you guys have me thinking of hauling out at least one. (I stored the hundreds of factory recordings in the lowest shelves of the many kitchen cabinets I never use.)
The point about separation is a good one, but the lack of direct random access was annoying. And while one poster above could ignore the hiss, I *never* could, but then again, I never liked the effect on the *rest* of the music if I used any Dolby variety, including DBX, to remove that hiss.
I even have a half-inch unit, from my early days when I was in broadcasting in case I want to hear my library of myself doing the news in my 20s.
I've used the RTRs for live recording of music in my home and know my way around a production booth and relevant gear, but I'd sooner use a good recent digital original source recorder for fidelity without noise or artifact. Seriously.
But I'll haul out a RTR or two and see if I might rethink that position.
I've got some things on 7 and 10-inch reel, vinyl, and CD. I guess I'll have to do a shootout.
The point about separation is a good one, but the lack of direct random access was annoying. And while one poster above could ignore the hiss, I *never* could, but then again, I never liked the effect on the *rest* of the music if I used any Dolby variety, including DBX, to remove that hiss.
I even have a half-inch unit, from my early days when I was in broadcasting in case I want to hear my library of myself doing the news in my 20s.
I've used the RTRs for live recording of music in my home and know my way around a production booth and relevant gear, but I'd sooner use a good recent digital original source recorder for fidelity without noise or artifact. Seriously.
But I'll haul out a RTR or two and see if I might rethink that position.
I've got some things on 7 and 10-inch reel, vinyl, and CD. I guess I'll have to do a shootout.
If you have annoying levels of hiss, either your tapes or bad or something is wrong with your decks.
It's a quiet hiss, but it *is* a hiss. Audible amid silences, but not truly otherwise. But I'm used to dead silence with my other gear and just never could stand the sound of tape because of the hiss, however small. Others might never notice it, but I have exceptional hearing and consider it distracting. I hear pretty much the same level of hiss on any tape gear I've ever listened to except when it's Dolby-ed out, which *also* creates a shift in the signal I want to hear that is *also* distracting. I can well imagine many or most people might never hear it, given the things people around me haven't heard when asked that I did hear. I engineered audio for CDs and film here and there over the years and was asked by more bands to produce albums than I ever accepted because they trusted my ears. I think I know what's in the realm of normal for the units, and regard the hiss as normal, but still unacceptable.
