Never heard reel-reel so have a question

[Skylab]

The hiss from my RT-707 playing 7.5 ips non-dolby tapes that I made on it is less barely audible during silence even at high volume levels, and completely inaudible during even very quiet musical passages. Many prerecorded reels I have the tape hiss from the actual original recording is louder than the hiss from the reel/deck themselves. Less audible for sure than even the quietest wet-vacuum cleaned records as played back on my VPI Scoutmaster with Benz LP-S micro-ridge line-contact stylus...

 

[jaguar06]

I agree that it can be less noisy than vinyl with its own set of noise sources. But often enough, that hiss is audible on vinyl mastered on tape.

Mainly popped back in here to add: I also find the sound of the tape as it winds on the reels a distraction, even more than that quiet hiss, even on well regulated decks. It was that particular minor noise that was the deciding factor in not setting up the RTRs in this house when I moved, more than the hiss.

No medium is perfect, but I was just rather surprised to see so much uniform opinion here suggesting tape as a superior medium when I've considered it the weakest in all my years in broadcasting (long ago) and home use. Not like its unlistenable, but I sure never thought it was the cleanest source. But, I *would* rather listen to that bit of hiss and that tiny scrape of tape on reel than listen to a badly pressed LP or a worn one.

I suppose you can count me as one who's quite content with a digital world. (Sure made audio production a lot easier.)

 

[ReverendFunk]

oki, thnx for clearifying - can I ask if reel-reel tapes are for sale of older recordings ?

You can find old albums on R2R on a certain famous auction site.

 

[Sam Cogley]

I agree that it can be less noisy than vinyl with its own set of noise sources. But often enough, that hiss is audible on vinyl mastered on tape.

Mainly popped back in here to add: I also find the sound of the tape as it winds on the reels a distraction, even more than that quiet hiss, even on well regulated decks. It was that particular minor noise that was the deciding factor in not setting up the RTRs in this house when I moved, more than the hiss.

No medium is perfect, but I was just rather surprised to see so much uniform opinion here suggesting tape as a superior medium when I've considered it the weakest in all my years in broadcasting (long ago) and home use. Not like its unlistenable, but I sure never thought it was the cleanest source. But, I *would* rather listen to that bit of hiss and that tiny scrape of tape on reel than listen to a badly pressed LP or a worn one.

I suppose you can count me as one who's quite content with a digital world. (Sure made audio production a lot easier.)

"Scrape of tape on reel." You haven't heard what open-reel can do, because if all of your decks are doing that, every single one is out of adjustment. Or simply isn't very good.

 

[ReverendFunk]

"Scrape of tape on reel." You haven't heard what open-reel can do, because if all of your decks are doing that, every single one is out of adjustment. Or simply isn't very good.

Easily fixed by adjusting the reel table height. On many TEAC models, it's set by turning a spring-loaded screw set in the black rubber part of each reel table.

Also look for warped reels if every deck does it with the same reels mounted.

And, if you're fast-winding the tape onto another reel, the tape may not be packing evenly onto the reel. The surface formed by the edges of the layers of tape should be smooth.

 

[SaSi]

Reel to Reel has better specs then vinyl, weather one can hear it is debatable but from my limited experience reel to reel captures everything from vinyl, cd or digital files.

Specs can be deceiving. A typical moving coil cart will give you specs of frequency response from 20 ~ 40.000Hz (some extend to 60kHz!). Try to match that with a tape deck.

I think the main "advantage" of the tape format is the ability to record and make your own tapes. Same with cassette, CD and the USB drive(lol).

 

[Sam Cogley]

Specs can be deceiving. A typical moving coil cart will give you specs of frequency response from 20 ~ 40.000Hz (some extend to 60kHz!). Try to match that with a tape deck.

I think the main "advantage" of the tape format is the ability to record and make your own tapes. Same with cassette, CD and the USB drive(lol).

Who cares? The human ear can't get past 20kHz at best.

 

[Maron Horonzakz]

No micraphone has a bandwidth up to 60k

 

[Sam Cogley]

The only reason a phono cart would need to get up there is for quad records with the rear channels upshifted into that range.

 

[JonL]

Last night I got in the mood to listen to a gem that I don't play very often, Harry Belafonte at Carnegie Hall. I have an original NM RCA Living Stereo two LP pressing with a sticker on the front proudly touting the virtues of RCA's "Miracle Surface" vinyl composition. I also have it on a single pre-recorded reel at 7 1/2 ips. (I also have a mono LP, but that's irrelevant.) This is a great record, extremely well recorded. Very natural live sound, you really feel as if you're in the audience.

Now, I put the record on last night and was enjoying it, but I was noticing quite a bit of sibilance on the vocals. I thought maybe my stylus was picking up some dust. I'd had a few cocktails, and was ready to go to sleep, so I didn't really feel like messing with the stylus and I decided instead to put the reel to reel on which I could fall asleep to without leaving the stylus in the runout groove.

Well, several things jumped out at me. First, all the sibilance I had heard on the LP was right there on the tape as well. The sibilance sounded so much like what I would have assumed to be a vinyl/playback issue but it was actually in the original recording.

Second, although my "Miracle Surface" disc is in great shape and pretty quiet, this record has a lot of quiet passages and beautifully mixed instrumentation with lots of low-level information. The total lack of intermittent noises (pops and clicks) on the tape was apparent and really nice.

Third, The LP had a presence and authority that the tape lacks to a noticeable degree. The tape still sounds wonderful and balanced, but just a bit thin and light in comparison to the LP. Now this may be more a function of my gear than the media. My cartridge is good but not great (Shure M75 with a hyperelliptical stylus). The table is very good, and the whole signal chain is simple and tubed. The tape playback is via a decent consumer deck, Teac A3300s, but the signal goes through the Teac's internal preamp (recently totally recapped with Elna caps). The Teac preamp is certainly inferior to the Audible Illusions phono stage, and that could easily be the source of the thinness in the sound.

In summary... there is no clear winner here. I think I prefer the "weightiness" of presentation that I get from the LP, but the clean background of the tape is really nice. The tape also has the edge in convenience... the double LP is in "stacker" sequencing, so playing it in order on a non-changer means a lot of vinyl shuffling. The tape has the whole thing in order with only one turn, and it's nice to have the length of both sides of an LP on each side of the tape.

Plusses and minuses, none strong enough to totally counter the other.

 

[eddisc]

No medium is perfect, but I was just rather surprised to see so much uniform opinion here suggesting tape as a superior medium when I've considered it the weakest in all my years in broadcasting (long ago) and home use. Not like its unlistenable, but I sure never thought it was the cleanest source. But, I *would* rather listen to that bit of hiss and that tiny scrape of tape on reel than listen to a badly pressed LP or a worn one.

I suppose you can count me as one who's quite content with a digital world. (Sure made audio production a lot easier.)

This IS a 'tape' forum - no?:yes: Why would you be surprised?:scratch2:

 

[Sam Cogley]

This IS a 'tape' forum - no?:yes: Why would you be surprised?:scratch2:

Because he's apparently spent a career using poor quality or mal-adjusted equipment.