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Open Baffle Epiphany!

Got_Horns said:
Sorry if this is dumb question. there's just so much info in this thread. Trying to catch up.

What makes a speaker good for OB? Is it only full range? Or can I do a two way? Specifically Epicure speakers that roll off well together. And needing only a cap for a crossover.

Thanks
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Typically you want high qts, if the driver is covering the lower frequencies. The only way around that is to use multiples of woofers per channel to get lots of cone area. Even then, with high qts, you still benefit from multiple woofers per channel.

You usually want to see a qts of 1, or close to it.

But, the high qts means sloppy bass control. This is nice in OB because it allows the woofer the reproduce the lower frequencies without the aid of an enclosure, but the bass can still be a little sloppy. Good bass response, but sloppy to a point, depending how high the qts is. If you use many woofers per channel with low qts, you get good bass response that is tight and controlled. I have 1 ob system that uses 4 woofers per channel, the woofers have a qts of 0.3. Kinda low, but all the cone area makes up for it. So I get the tight, accurate bass of a low qts driver and good bass response due to all the cone area and the OB. Best of both worlds I suppose.

When it comes to full range drivers that are commonly used to cover the high frequencies, you want as much cone area as possible. Thats why you commonly see 8in, 10in, 12in or 15in full range drivers to cover the highs. Occasionally you see super tweeters used too to augment the highs. Those can be the typical small bullet style tweeters.

This is my experience anyways.
 
Made the move back to my favorite setup to date, DIY clones of the Spatial X-2, Using the Lii F-15 up top and an eminence alpha 15 below, crossing the bass at 150 Hz running 45 amps on the F-15 and Crown on the Bass. My new Supra Tek Cabernet dual with 300b DHT output on the 45 amps and 6sn7 output on the crown amps. Soul source is Win 10 running J-River FLAC files into my sw1x DAC III STD+.................Best the system has sounded IMHO

Going to get some black walnut to finish the baffles in for a finished look hopefully this fall when it cools down some
 

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joespride said:
Made the move back to my favorite setup to date, DIY clones of the Spatial X-2, Using the Lii F-15 up top and an eminence alpha 15 below, crossing the bass at 150 Hz running 45 amps on the F-15 and Crown on the Bass. My new Supra Tek Cabernet dual with 300b DHT output on the 45 amps and 6sn7 output on the crown amps. Soul source is Win 10 running J-River FLAC files into my sw1x DAC III STD+.................Best the system has sounded IMHO

Going to get some black walnut to finish the baffles in for a finished look hopefully this fall when it cools down some
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joespride, I think I have all of the drivers to mimic this build! Do you have more info on your setup / speaker build somewhere?
 
Goggle1824 said:
joespride, I think I have all of the drivers to mimic this build! Do you have more info on your setup / speaker build somewhere?
Click to expand...
I keep threatening to do just that but alas I am to lazy or focused on the task at hand to take the time. Its actually an easy (ish) build I cut 18" X 18" squares from 3/4 plywood or MDF. 16 squares total, I glue up 4 squares x 3 pieces thick and 2 squares X 2 pieces thick. Mark the center of each square after they dry. Then route 2 holes the size for the bass driver using the triple thick baffles. Then route the 4 remaining baffles the size of the Lii F-15 driver. Take the 2 double thick baffles with the holes cut out and cut them in 1/2 (These are now the rear braces that hold the speaker upright) You glue 1 piece of the 1/2 baffles to the rear of each of the 4 triple thick baffles with the 1/2 cutout side facing the cutout of the triple thick baffle. Finish as desired

I use rubber or ? beneath the bottom alpha baffle to decouple from the floor, I also use same between the lower and upper baffles. I do not mechanically connect the upper & lowers I let gravity do its thing. 1 other thing I do is I cut a wedge off the rear support pieces "on the bottom baffle only" so that the whole speaker tilts back a bit.

Sounds MUCH more complicated than it actually is, Also you can make your baffles squares any size you feel happy with. I prefer as small a baffle as I can get making the whole speaker smaller for easier placement and helps to make the speaker disappear for me
 
joespride said:
I cant figure out how to do it.......................Memory is not what it once was. Happy to get a message explaining it and I will certainly change it up to show the new set up
Click to expand...

Click on your name at the top right of this page and then click on signature to edit.
 
joespride said:
I keep threatening to do just that but alas I am to lazy or focused on the task at hand to take the time. Its actually an easy (ish) build I cut 18" X 18" squares from 3/4 plywood or MDF. 16 squares total, I glue up 4 squares x 3 pieces thick and 2 squares X 2 pieces thick. Mark the center of each square after they dry. Then route 2 holes the size for the bass driver using the triple thick baffles. Then route the 4 remaining baffles the size of the Lii F-15 driver. Take the 2 double thick baffles with the holes cut out and cut them in 1/2 (These are now the rear braces that hold the speaker upright) You glue 1 piece of the 1/2 baffles to the rear of each of the 4 triple thick baffles with the 1/2 cutout side facing the cutout of the triple thick baffle. Finish as desired

I use rubber or ? beneath the bottom alpha baffle to decouple from the floor, I also use same between the lower and upper baffles. I do not mechanically connect the upper & lowers I let gravity do its thing. 1 other thing I do is I cut a wedge off the rear support pieces "on the bottom baffle only" so that the whole speaker tilts back a bit.

Sounds MUCH more complicated than it actually is, Also you can make your baffles squares any size you feel happy with. I prefer as small a baffle as I can get making the whole speaker smaller for easier placement and helps to make the speaker disappear for me
Click to expand...
Thank you, I’m thinking I’ll have a clarifying question or two, hope that doesn’t come across as pestering. :angel:

Could you share a couple more pictures of the sides and backs? And how are the tops and bottom baffles connected?

Also, nice job on updating that signature. :thumbsup:
 
You might notice mine are only 2 thick, thats because I plan to add another layer of solid black Walnut, bringing them to 3 thick baffles when completed hopefully this fall
 
joespride said:
You are very welcome. Dont hesitate to contact me if I can be of any help, Too bad we are not closer. You would be welcome to stop by for a demo
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how do you like the 150hz crossover point? i have Lii 15s on top and eminence aphas (in H-frames) on the bottom and have crossed at 50hz w 24db slope.
 
rogerfederer said:
how do you like the 150hz crossover point? i have Lii 15s on top and eminence aphas (in H-frames) on the bottom and have crossed at 50hz w 24db slope.
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I love the 150 Hz, Been using that point for years I used to do horns and would cross at 150 there as well. 150 keeps the alpha out of 99% of the vocal range and covers the Bass & even some of the low mid bass. It makes for a fuller overall sound IMHO..........................most of the big companies are crossing closer to 150 than they are lower.

I used H-Frames for a while as well I crossed at 150 using them with several different FR drivers up top.

Joe
 
joespride said:
I love the 150 Hz, Been using that point for years I used to do horns and would cross at 150 there as well. 150 keeps the alpha out of 99% of the vocal range and covers the Bass & even some of the low mid bass. It makes for a fuller overall sound IMHO..........................most of the big companies are crossing closer to 150 than they are lower.

I used H-Frames for a while as well I crossed at 150 using them with several different FR drivers up top.

Joe
Click to expand...
to each their own, eh? i tried a higher cross point but felt that too much of the music was coming out of the alphas. i use a miniDSP to bring in the alphas; the Liis run full range (i do the same thing with my altec 604Es and helper woofers; i use a higher cross point for them). i set the slope at 12 db but again felt too much music was coming out of the alphas; i like 24db better.
 
rogerfederer said:
to each their own, eh? i tried a higher cross point but felt that too much of the music was coming out of the alphas. i use a miniDSP to bring in the alphas; the Liis run full range (i do the same thing with my altec 604Es and helper woofers; i use a higher cross point for them). i set the slope at 12 db but again felt too much music was coming out of the alphas; i like 24db better.
Click to expand...
I have often felt this level of audio should be called "MY" Fi, I agree 100% to each there own..................Wish more folks in the hobby could look at things this way. Seems some are not happy unless you subscribe to there way of thinking..........................

For fun I poked my (Late Spatial) Early EP CS2.7 in yesterday. That 12 inch Coax that Clayton used is "TONS" better than the drivers EP (underwood) went to. Its to bad Wally was so damn cheap. he hurt the brand. The Baffles that Clayton designed & Built were substantially better than the EP as well. 1/4 solid steel plate base, using 1/2x20 nut and bolts to connect the base to the baffles............ROCK SOLID

Coax driver Beyma 12xa30Nd (https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Fichas_Tecnicas/beyma-speakers-data-sheet-coaxial-12XA30Nd.pdf ) Approx 1500.00 a pair
 
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