Picked up an SL-23
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Crab33
Super Member
The Pickerings are usually labelled with their model number on the underside. Remove the headshell from the arm and have a look. I imagine it's some kind of Pickering V15, obviously with a D7E elliptical stylus. A V15 with a spherical stylus once passed through my hands - it sounded OK but nothing special.
AudioFeline
Super Member
Pickering cart's were often a re-badged Stanton, so they are quite good for your SL-23.
I never trust the condition of a stylus in a pre-owned turntable, as they are most often very worn. You should replace it, as it only takes one playing of a record with a worn stylus to damage it for life. You can keep the original stylus to play very scratched/damaged records, so you don't risk damaging your good stylus playing bad records. Mark the original styli so you don't get them mixed up.
I never trust the condition of a stylus in a pre-owned turntable, as they are most often very worn. You should replace it, as it only takes one playing of a record with a worn stylus to damage it for life. You can keep the original stylus to play very scratched/damaged records, so you don't risk damaging your good stylus playing bad records. Mark the original styli so you don't get them mixed up.
Stereodiver
Well-Known Member
I’d also replace the headshell with one that makes it easier to line up the cartridge. My SL 1900 came with the one pictured and for me it was a pain in the ass trying to get proper alignment.
Remember VTA and Azimuth too!
Have Fun! Mark
Remember VTA and Azimuth too!
Have Fun! Mark
LenniePaz
Active Member
Thanks for the replies guys. Some of the responses are a bit overwhelming. I was hoping to just play some vinyl, and wasn't expecting to change the cart. I see the M97xE goes for over $300??? Which has more of an impact on sound quality, the cart or the stylus? Also, here's a pic of the underside of my cart. I don't see any markings telling me what model the cart is.
Attachments
AudioFeline
Super Member
The markings could be on the top of the cartridge, that is currently obscured by the headshell (the cart. manufactures didn't always make it easy for us).
In general, the cartridge will determine the general sound quality. However, different stylus profiles can take the cart's level up to the next rung (and the better styli generally cost more money).
Don't worry about being overwhelmed. You are on a learning curve. In time the info will make sense. If you don't follow anything ask and we will try to clarify.
In general, the cartridge will determine the general sound quality. However, different stylus profiles can take the cart's level up to the next rung (and the better styli generally cost more money).
Don't worry about being overwhelmed. You are on a learning curve. In time the info will make sense. If you don't follow anything ask and we will try to clarify.
AudioFeline
Super Member
The headshell looks to be a standard "SME" type, for a s-shaped tonearm. Replacements are easy to get and are affordable (unless you want to get very exotic, which will be a waste on the turntables being discussed).
LenniePaz
Active Member
Searching around the forums, I saw someone recommended this cartridge. What do you guys think of that setup? Would that fit my headshell? Also, if I remove the cart from the headshell to see if there's a model number on the cart, will that screw up any adjustments?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CCEQM4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glc_fabc_SGSF12YJN2VJ49H7ANP4
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CCEQM4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glc_fabc_SGSF12YJN2VJ49H7ANP4
Turntable Needles shows this:
PICKERING CARTRIDGES MX/15-900E V-15/303E V-15/4A0E V-15/460E-IMP V-15/710E V15/710E V/645E V/691E VEV 2000 V/645E V/691E V/15-303E V/15-440E V/15-480E IMPROVED V/15-710E
• PICKERING NEEDLES D7E
LP Gear shows this:
https://www.lpgear.com/product/PICSD0007E.html
So, for about the same money you get a new stylus for your cart that is mounted already. Otherwise, you might want to take it off of the headshell and see to make sure, but I doubt the D7E from LP Gear will not fit.....
And yes, if you do remove it you will risk changing the proper alignment but on the other hand, you can mark on the headshell where the screws are presently and likely get it really close to where it was. All you are really talking about is the azimuth alignment and overhang, which if you mark where it is now in relation to the slots that the screws go through and return it to the same position you will be mighty close to where you started......not saying that it was properly aligned to begin with but it will be very close to the same as it was.
So, your choice. If you go with the Ortofon, you will have to start over with alignment anyhow as that cartridge has a very different geometry and will need to be set for proper overhang (and azimuth). That's OK though as we will help you understand things as you go amigo.....
Feline from down-under makes a good point.....without the ability to accurately assess the condition of that stylus on there now, you stand the very real chance of doing damage to your records. And, just from the pictures, it does look rather old and tired but that can be deceiving. Generally, without pretty technical equipment and knowledge, the health of a stylus is difficult to assess. So, why not just start fresh and for less than $200 you have a very serviceable turntable. If you stay with the present cartridge, or even with the Ortofon, you will be able to replace the stylus in the future as well. Try to keep track of the hours you put on the new one so you know when it's time to replace it. With the elipticals, I think the general consensus is to not use them for a lot more than about 600 hours and that may be stretching a bit.
PS - It would appear that the brush on your existing cartridge has been removed. The new one from LP Gear looks like it comes with the brush but you can try it both ways to see how you like the sound. It looks like it just clips on, but others with more experience with these styli will be able to speak to this more completely.
PICKERING CARTRIDGES MX/15-900E V-15/303E V-15/4A0E V-15/460E-IMP V-15/710E V15/710E V/645E V/691E VEV 2000 V/645E V/691E V/15-303E V/15-440E V/15-480E IMPROVED V/15-710E
• PICKERING NEEDLES D7E
LP Gear shows this:
https://www.lpgear.com/product/PICSD0007E.html
So, for about the same money you get a new stylus for your cart that is mounted already. Otherwise, you might want to take it off of the headshell and see to make sure, but I doubt the D7E from LP Gear will not fit.....
And yes, if you do remove it you will risk changing the proper alignment but on the other hand, you can mark on the headshell where the screws are presently and likely get it really close to where it was. All you are really talking about is the azimuth alignment and overhang, which if you mark where it is now in relation to the slots that the screws go through and return it to the same position you will be mighty close to where you started......not saying that it was properly aligned to begin with but it will be very close to the same as it was.
So, your choice. If you go with the Ortofon, you will have to start over with alignment anyhow as that cartridge has a very different geometry and will need to be set for proper overhang (and azimuth). That's OK though as we will help you understand things as you go amigo.....
Feline from down-under makes a good point.....without the ability to accurately assess the condition of that stylus on there now, you stand the very real chance of doing damage to your records. And, just from the pictures, it does look rather old and tired but that can be deceiving. Generally, without pretty technical equipment and knowledge, the health of a stylus is difficult to assess. So, why not just start fresh and for less than $200 you have a very serviceable turntable. If you stay with the present cartridge, or even with the Ortofon, you will be able to replace the stylus in the future as well. Try to keep track of the hours you put on the new one so you know when it's time to replace it. With the elipticals, I think the general consensus is to not use them for a lot more than about 600 hours and that may be stretching a bit.
PS - It would appear that the brush on your existing cartridge has been removed. The new one from LP Gear looks like it comes with the brush but you can try it both ways to see how you like the sound. It looks like it just clips on, but others with more experience with these styli will be able to speak to this more completely.
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LenniePaz
Active Member
I'd rather be safe than sorry, with the cart model number. I'm going to take it off the headshell, but before I do, I just remove the 2 screws, correct? Where exactly should I mark them, so I can return them to the same spot? Should I pick up the alignment tool, to make sure it is aligned correctly?
Not sure which alignment tool you are referencing, but if there is one available for your headshell/cartridge then yes, that will make things easier. Most of the time you can just use a sharp lead pencil to kind of outline where the cartridge is mounted in the headshell and return it to that mark. I think I would do the same though, rather than have to try to return something to LP Gear (return postage, restocking fee etc. etc.). However, if you by chance do not find any model number on the cartridge, that stylus number should guarantee a fit.
LenniePaz
Active Member
This is the gauge I was referring to.
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=96707
I just downloaded your images to see if I could get a better look.....the one showing the bottom reveals some rather unusual markings just behind the area where the cantilever protrudes....almost shiney like it had been dragging (on records?) so suggesting that the suspension may be really weak, all the more reason to NOT use that thing until you have a new, reliable one mounted. Discoloration, a lot of pitting (which may be normal but I'm not sure) is aesthetically displeasing but may not affect performance, others more familiar with these carts may know more. I would be tempted to use some IPA on the very end of a q-tip to try to clean it up some, being very careful not to get any in the hole where the new stylus will go so I would try this with the old stylus still in there.
Is that tool made for your headshell? If so and if it's not more than a few bucks, sure....if you really want to make some improvements, it might be good to follow Stereodiver's advice and just pick up a new headshell that makes life easier. Otherwise, what you have will work and all you have to do is get a new stylus and the gauge. Remember, this is just getting you close but maybe for your purposes that is all that is required.
Is that tool made for your headshell? If so and if it's not more than a few bucks, sure....if you really want to make some improvements, it might be good to follow Stereodiver's advice and just pick up a new headshell that makes life easier. Otherwise, what you have will work and all you have to do is get a new stylus and the gauge. Remember, this is just getting you close but maybe for your purposes that is all that is required.
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Lennie, so you have the owner's manual? If not, you can get it on VinylEngine and it clearly shows how to address the headshell. Take a look at it so you know which screw(s) you will want to manipulate.....the one on top allows you to slide the cartridge front to back to get the proper overhang. If you remove that, you might be able to see a cartridge model number but I'm not sure. Getting it back on may require you to remove the other two screws that hold the cartridge in its mount.
But man, I just did a close-up look at your first picture as well and it looks like your cartridge has been subjected to some rather harsh treatment! There are coffee/tobacco-looking stains that make me want to take a long, hard look at whether to keep it or not, regardless of how clean I can get the outside because I don't know what might have transferred to the inside. So there's also that.....
But man, I just did a close-up look at your first picture as well and it looks like your cartridge has been subjected to some rather harsh treatment! There are coffee/tobacco-looking stains that make me want to take a long, hard look at whether to keep it or not, regardless of how clean I can get the outside because I don't know what might have transferred to the inside. So there's also that.....
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LenniePaz
Active Member
The crazy part about all that, is it sounds really good. I'm not hearing anything that tells me the cart is dragging, or that the stylus is worn. I listened to Miles Davis' Kind of Blue, and it sounds better than my Philips 877. Both the cart and stylus do look pretty rough though, so I think I'll get a new headshell, cart, and stylus. Can I get something good for $100, or do I need to spend more? This headshell looks like it will work. I found a cart that has good reviews too. Or LP Gear has an entire setup. Thoughts?
https://www.lpgear.com/product/CF95SESET.html
https://www.lpgear.com/product/ATC95E.html
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0048XFL18/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glc_fabc_W85VKG4GBD1QQ7G51HBR
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I'm not sure what the headshell will run you but I saw some for around $20 on Turntable Needles so there's that.....as far as a new cartridge is concerned, it will depend on what is recommended for your particular turntable. What this really means is what the "effective mass" of the tonearm is. Cartridges should be selected on the basis of compliance, which means how easily the cantilever will move up and down in the suspension, or the "springyness" of it if that makes sense to you. High compliance cartridges will move very easily, where low compliance will not and are "stiff" by comparison. The stiff ones will need a tonearm with higher effective mass, while the more springy will do better with a lower effective mass tonearm. Just judging from what you have on there (stylus) I would guess you might be in the "medium" mass range so that's good as there will be more choices. The Ortofon you showed is a pretty high compliance cartridge. I might be looking at a more medium compliance model and have personally heard some of the Sumikos that fit that description, particularly these:
https://sumikophonocartridges.com/product/pearl-mm-phono-cartridge/
https://sumikophonocartridges.com/product/oyster-mm-phono-cartridge/
https://sumikophonocartridges.com/product/black-mm-pearl-phono-cartridge/
The Pearl at about $120 sounded really nice to my ears.....you can probably do better on price if you do some shopping around, but that will get you close as far as price is concerned.
https://sumikophonocartridges.com/product/pearl-mm-phono-cartridge/
https://sumikophonocartridges.com/product/oyster-mm-phono-cartridge/
https://sumikophonocartridges.com/product/black-mm-pearl-phono-cartridge/
The Pearl at about $120 sounded really nice to my ears.....you can probably do better on price if you do some shopping around, but that will get you close as far as price is concerned.
rocketmotor
New Member
That cartridge is most likely a Pickering XV-15 which is the same as a Stanton 681. These are great sounding cartridges! They were used as an industry standard for mastering engineers to check their work.
Look to the epay for a PM4216DE stylus. It is a nude diamond and sounds very good.
Look to the epay for a PM4216DE stylus. It is a nude diamond and sounds very good.
Hey Rocket, did you see the photos that Lennie put up in the first several posts? I commented about it looking pretty rough.....do you know how to clean it up and what to use? His comments about it sounding really good make me question whether he really needs to be buying a new cartridge, might be better off with the one he has with a new stylus. I have a Stanton 737E and I agree, it sounds very nice!
