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Presence, Realism, Palpable sound amplifiers

T

tucky

New Member
What is the amplifier that sounds most realistic, has correct timbre, and projects palpable image you have ever heard?

My current amp, Willsenton R300 Plus with Jupiter capacitor mod, sounds almost up to there, really close! But its centric tonal balance and the little far from real timbre, especially piano and double bass, get me down. That is perhaps due to my speaker(Tekton Lore Reference), but I also really like them and found that they are very sensitive to any small changes I do to the system. Hence I hope the amp can fill the last tiny bit of gap.

Yes, this is a kind of budget friendly system in the tube amplifier kingdom, then the maximum would be up to US$3500, totally squeezed out. I do not have any preference between integrated or separated system.

Any suggestions will be appreciated!
 
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Gallon gear gets good reviews.

www.galion-audio.com

Galion TS34 Tube Integrated Amplifier V2 (The successor to the TS120 s

$2975 USD not including shipping and customs. No customs in North America. We have upgraded the capacitors in the TS34 from Jupiter bumblebee to Jupiter VitaminQ for better reliability. Only in black with a blue top plateIncludes High-quality metal remote control 2 – 12AX7, 2 – 12AT7 and 4 –...
www.galion-audio.com www.galion-audio.com
 
That last little bit you're searching for is probably in the output transformers.You'll need to look for a non-Chinese product. One of the best is the Dynaco ST-35. If you're handy with a soldering iron, Elekit and Bottlehead are also both excellent. All of this is well within your budget.

Jack
 
BmWr75 said:
Gallon gear gets good reviews.

www.galion-audio.com

Galion TS34 Tube Integrated Amplifier V2 (The successor to the TS120 s

$2975 USD not including shipping and customs. No customs in North America. We have upgraded the capacitors in the TS34 from Jupiter bumblebee to Jupiter VitaminQ for better reliability. Only in black with a blue top plateIncludes High-quality metal remote control 2 – 12AX7, 2 – 12AT7 and 4 –...
www.galion-audio.com www.galion-audio.com
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I didn’t know either this amp or even the brand. Will definitely check it.
 
TriodeLuvr said:
That last little bit you're searching for is probably in the output transformers.You'll need to look for a non-Chinese product. One of the best is the Dynaco ST-35. If you're handy with a soldering iron, Elekit and Bottlehead are also both excellent. All of this is well within your budget.

Jack
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Yeah, that’s one thing I thought. Elekit tu-8900 with upgrades could be my next stop.
 
opnly bafld said:
As you alluded to the speakers might be part of the problem, so I would want to look at different speakers before I spent $3500 on an amplifier.
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Thanks for pointing that out! If I would follow the general rule of thumb, I had to invest in the speakers first as some of us believe, including myself. However, I would have 2 potential routes in that case. One pair of speakers matches well with 30w/ch or higher amps, the other is more focused on low power SET driven. That being said I seem to be better off setting a reliable amplifier first.
 
What you want is a Williamson. ;-) Seriously, the Williamson produces the most honest weighty and natural tone of any tube amp I've ever used. I'm a piano lover so this is important for me. They weigh in at about 20-25 watts per channel, which is plenty for the Tektons. But they only come in vintage varieties. No one currently makes a true Williamson amp that I am aware of, but you can buy restored versions. Another option is PP EL84's, which tend to have a much more natural tone than higher-powered PP amps. Check out Black Ice's EL84 amplifiers.

You could also look for a used Cary 300SEI, which usually go for around $3500. A far, far better amplifier than the R300.
 
I agree with an amp using EL-84/6BQ5 power tubes. Out of all my amps my Dynakit clone of the ST-35 sounds the best. The output transformers are really nice and those tubes in general tend to sound pretty sweet. Even in my old modified Magnavox 9303 EL-84 PP amp out of an old console and a small EL-84 single ended amp I built on the cheap sounds good. I like my other amps, but there is something about the EL-84 that gets it right.
 
I have a good friend in Florida, a musician. He has a pair of Williamsons I built for him, and he loves them, but twice now he's commented on PP EL84 amps he's heard--the little Black Ice integrated he heard at the Florida Audio Expo ("It rocked!") and just this weekend at the Audio Note UK shop in Miami. Among other instruments he plays acoustic bass, and he's VERY fussy about getting the bass right in an audio system.
 
tucky said:
That is perhaps due to my speaker(Tekton Lore Reference), but I also really like them and found that they are very sensitive to any small changes I do to the system. Hence I hope the amp can fill the last tiny bit of gap.
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In addition to my earlier post regarding amplifiers, I'll add that you will have many more choices for compatible speakers with a medium power push-pull amplifier. Either Williamson or Mullard types will work fine (and to tell the truth, I don't see the stark distinction between the two that some others do). In any event, a push-pull amplifier with feedback will be quieter and will usually provide significantly extended bass capability into the lower two octaves than single-ended. It's not a problem with small SETs (2A3 and less) if they have good transformers, but gapped OPTs in larger amps are very limited. For example, to be capable of 25W at 20Hz (just to use round numbers), the OPTs in a 211 or 845 SET would need to be the size of cinder blocks. Careful reading of amplifier specifications will show that most manufacturers are careful to skirt around this issue. The bottom line is that if you want at least 15W/CH and flat response to the lowest frequency, push-pull is the only way to get there at any reasonable cost.

Jack
 
I will add my two cents all the amp in the world is dependent on what you feed it so when you say amp you need to consider the preamp as well as I find that very important to what your end up with coming out in the end. A really good preamp starts the ball rolling, and sometimes integrated amps seem to just think of the front end as something that is not all that important, as the customers are always looking at the wattage verse cost as the factor in buying. A great preamp will make a great amp sound great, but a poor preamp will make the best amp sound just about as bad as the bad amp.

Just something to add to the confusion.
 
If I were looking for a good sounding set up on your budget, I would go for the pair of Cary Six packs for sale on Audiomart US and then pair it with a seperate preamp, the Cary SLP 98 on the same site. I think the two would pair up very nicely and right in your budget just a bit more included the shipping cost.

But so much is depended on personal taste and circumstances.
 
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Something like this is bound to produce a number of opinions, I guess I'll add mine.

I wouldn't include Tektons in my favorite speakers, particularly in the bass department, even though they go low and do many things well. Tonal clarity down low is not great in the ones I've heard. So I too would look to making a change there though it only makes sense to consider speakers and amplifier together as the performance of either will depend on how suited it is to what it's mated to.

I think what the OP is looking for is basically a high-quality amplifier, and those priorities certainly reflect what tube amps do well. I have a high-quality SS system and it does many things well but I would not include presence, realisim or palpability among its strengths, it tends to produce a very clear and clean rendering of the music as though it were inside an immaculate glass box, but not in the room.

I think both SET and PP can do that well, with high-quality examples of each paired to appropriate speakers. The imaging side of it is easier with smaller driver sizes, which favors higher-power PP amps (15-50W), at the expense of tonal accuracy and scale to some degree. Larger drivers do tonal accuracy better, IMO, and have a better chance of being more efficient. I wouldn't count the R300 as among the best SET amps but it may well suffice since the OP already has it. Spending the budget on speakers might be a better way to go than spending on both. My personal vote would be for a set of Altec 604s, which should be doable within that budget, but I'm probably biased there. Low driver count, strong magnets and high efficiency would be my priorities.
 
Tromatic said:
Rogue audio is worth a listen.
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I have heard nothing but great things about Rouge Audio. However, I have tried 2 PP amps (Willsenton R8 with kt88 and Primaluna EVO 100 integrated with EL34) then I was not enough convinced either of them. Probably, the experience gives me a sort of bias away from PP amps, I admit. Could you compare one or both of them to Rouge components?
 
zackthedog said:
What you want is a Williamson. ;-) Seriously, the Williamson produces the most honest weighty and natural tone of any tube amp I've ever used. I'm a piano lover so this is important for me. They weigh in at about 20-25 watts per channel, which is plenty for the Tektons. But they only come in vintage varieties. No one currently makes a true Williamson amp that I am aware of, but you can buy restored versions. Another option is PP EL84's, which tend to have a much more natural tone than higher-powered PP amps. Check out Black Ice's EL84 amplifiers.

You could also look for a used Cary 300SEI, which usually go for around $3500. A far, far better amplifier than the R300.
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Yes, that's all I want. Williamson seems very attractive... I wish I could have been born in that golden age:no:

Yeah, I have heard there are lots of Black Ice fans. Actually, I have been eyeing EL84 amps especially Audio Note OTO SE Signature, as well as Decware SE84UFO. But you know AudioNote is out of my price range, and Decware could be underpowered with my Tektons. I was not impressed that much with either the too smooth/relaxed EL34 Primaluna Evo100 or "good" sounding KT88 Willsenton R8, which both are PP amps. Do you think Black Ice EL84 PP would be different than them? Do they do the acoustic instruments tone justice?

Cary 300SEI must be phenomenal. Just wondering if they are too warm sounding because I heard Cary gears tend to be so. I am looking at it and Coincident Frankenstein 300b Stereo.
 
I'm always on a budget and I've been a working musician for over 50 years. So take my advice with a grain of salt please.
I always prefer push pull el84s and an st35 is my favorite with the right preamp. Having said that I just finished a pioneer er420 receiver with el84s in the outputs and it sounds amazing with Lps. However speaker choice is critical. I use Altec flamencos, tannoy 15" dual concentrics or EV marquis with coaxial 12" ev drivers. All of these have terrific efficiency and really nice dynamics.

That's my 2 cents.
 
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