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Presence, Realism, Palpable sound amplifiers

opnly bafld said:
Or just PSE and let others wonder if it's triode, tetrode/pentode, or ultra linear. ;)
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My mono blocks and ST-70 have UL/triode mode switches. Pentodes and tetrodes just sound thin to me in triode mode. Plus it cuts your output in half. I now wish I had never added the switches. If any of these amps winds up on the bench again I'm going to remove them and leave the amps in UL mode. Triode mode just doesn't sound near as good as a real triode tube to me. Pentode will give you a light umos in output, but adds more distortion than UL.
 
analogadict said:
Hi Sam ,

You should build a ST35 clone . There is a pair of nice OPTs , you know where

Regards,
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Immediate next is EL84 PP with Jack Elliano designed PSA-2N. Looks simple on paper but quite tiring project. A total of 8 iron including anode chokes.
 
I'm no expert, I've only been into vacuum tube audio for a couple years, but the ST35 (and PAS3) is pretty incredible for atmosphere/timbre/texture. Properly recorded acoustic instruments of all sorts are transcendent.

I was lucky to find a lightly used set locally that only needed a small amount of work to get up and going. The PAS still has its Dynaco-branded Telefunken 12AX7 tubes, which is very likely a bonus.

Though I may have ruined myself for anything else in the future that isn't big dollars.
IMG_5251.jpg
 
TriodeLuvr said:
Not all amps are created equal, even if they're all solid state. :)
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So very true. I've restored and collected various SS power amps over the years before selling most of it all off. They all had a different sound to them. Even between two of the same amp due to using some different film caps in one.
 
opnly bafld said:
I have a KT88 triode strapped single ended amplifier and a 6P14P triode strapped single ended amplifier and have no complaints. I had a push pull KT88 amplifier that was switchable and ended up always using it in triode mode.

Regarding power I figure if X amount is not enough 3 more dBs probably won't cut it either.
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I guess I just got spoiled listening to direct heated 300B triodes.
I just don't hear the same awesome midrange from triode strapped pentode tubes. But everyone's ears are different and that's a good thing. It gives us all plenty of options.
 
Lavane said:
I guess I just got spoiled listening to direct heated 300B triodes.
I just don't hear the same awesome midrange from triode strapped pentode tubes. But everyone's ears are different and that's a good thing. It gives us all plenty of options.
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I need to start a different thread as I have a pair of speakers that I recently purchased, they are SET using 845 tubes and the owner claimed they had a hum and tried changing the heaters from AC to DC to reduce the hum. I don't think he was able to get a satisfactory result. So, I have them now, he removed his work and restored them to what they came with AC heater 6.3 volts if I recall. They are mono blocks, and I have yet to use them but if I find the hum excessive, I might need to do something to make improvements. He did change out the Transformers as well, some massive things, but I have the original ones to put back if I want. The brand of transformers was a very good brand that is why he changed out the OEM thinking that might improve them.
 
opnly bafld said:
Stereophile Audio Glossary
"thin Very deficient in bass. The result of severe attenuation of the range below 500Hz."

You are moving the goalposts on me. ;)
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It's not just below the 500hz range to my ears. The best way I can explain it is its like letting some air out of the ballon. While it may only be a 3db drop in volume triode strapping a pentode, there is a loss of fullness to how they sound compared to a real pentode or triode. If I'm listening to rock music it's pentode all the way. But acoustic instrumentals , vocals, piano, Jazz, etc. sound so good with a true triode. It's not near the same with a triode strapped pentode.
 
Lavane said:
But acoustic instrumentals , vocals, piano, Jazz, etc. sound so good with a true triode. It's not near the same with a triode strapped pentode.
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Most triode-mode pentodes are less linear. The 6V6 can come very close under the right operating conditions, but it's one of the few.
Ken Boyd said:
I need to start a different thread as I have a pair of speakers that I recently purchased, they are SET using 845 tubes and the owner claimed they had a hum and tried changing the heaters from AC to DC to reduce the hum. I don't think he was able to get a satisfactory result. So, I have them now, he removed his work and restored them to what they came with AC heater 6.3 volts if I recall. They are mono blocks, and I have yet to use them but if I find the hum excessive, I might need to do something to make improvements. He did change out the Transformers as well, some massive things, but I have the original ones to put back if I want. The brand of transformers was a very good brand that is why he changed out the OEM thinking that might improve them.
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The 845 is a 10V heater, which is why it hums. Same for the 211. I tried DC for the heaters in my 211 monos, but didn't like the loss of presence. Ended up building ultrasonic heater supplies. They're totally quiet now.

Jack
 
Ken Boyd said:
I am not worried about what SS amps sounds like, as I haven't listened to my SS amps in years. They can sound thin all they want.
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Ya, I only have three left myself. Two are Crown CDi-1000's that were givn to me. They have built in DSP, so one will be used as a sub amp and the other is used in my garage system. These amp are the most sterile dry sounding amps I've ever owned. But should work great for a subwoofer.
The other is a Marantz model 140 75wpc power amp. I went completely through it and replaced the factory mylar film caps with some Jansen red Superior Z film caps. That woke that amp up and it sounds very good compared to the other 140 I had that I left those mylar caps in. It was a very noticable difference.
 
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This thread being the most "current" (pun intended, I think?) to respond-to, I pose this stupid question...so, last year, while my Manley Snapper was in the shop, I purchased a Schitt Vidar to fill the void 'til my Snapper returned. The Snapper has some serious grunt, the Vidar, not so much. Both amps are rated at 100 watts. How come is it?
 
Tube amps are all easily influenced by load impedance of the loud speaker. So where one highly acclaimed amp might sound great with speaker system X, might be a flop with your speakers. Plus tubes of different manufacturers can change the sound, too. So that means there are a lot a chances of getting the perfect amp to go with your speakers to be a real challenge. I know with my Concert Grands the best amp I ever herd with the speakers was Mcintosh MC 3500 MK I. I did not have the space or funds for purchasing 4 of them to bi-amp the the speakers. I used two 275's for while, 2100's which were a disaster, Crown SS amps, and many different tube amps we sold in the 80's and 90's and none made me happy. Then I discovered MC 7200's which were Mcintosh's first Direct coupled SS amps. So I don't mean to disappoint you but I have been using Mcintosh Direct Coupled SS amps since. I will say Ive heard MK IV and V 275's out perform much more expensive tube amplifiers by others. Even Mac's own 2301. But here again I think its the properties of the speaker that determines which tube amp sounds best for that speaker.

Most speakers today are around 90 db 1 watt 1 meter, or about 88.6 db at 4 feet. So you can compare with older ratings. So a 275 might not be quite enough for larger rooms. Of course Mac makes the larger MC 1502 on one chassis. Which is basically a double 275. But I wouldn't just buy one with out auditioning it with your speakers.

I am always amazed that when reviewers check Mac Power amps they check them at full power, where with other amp manufacturers they test their tube amps at much lower power levels saying that is what normal listening levels would require. If you are buying a 80 watt amp test the thing a 80 watts where most tube amps don't do that well at full rated power. I was always amazed at just on the onset of clipping at around 95 watts per channel the 275 was just at 2% distortion. MC 75's and MC 60's were about the same if not more. My MC 240's met specs at 55 watts per channel and clipped around 62, or a least mine did.
 
Oregon said:
Perhaps I could restate my question. Can, do, tube amps sound bigger than SS amps?
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Yes, they can. My 25 wpc Williamsons sound much fuller and richer than a Sony 100 wpc receiver I have. (I use it in the bedroom with small speakers and it's perfectly fine there, convenient and pretty musical.) That's not to say there aren't good SS amps, but you have to pay a bit more for ones that match the air and tonal richness you get with even a modest tube amp. I'm never surprised when someone starts a thread to the effect that they bought a used Dynaco ST-70 and it beats the heck out of their 300 wpc AV receiver.
 
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