Quartet Woofer Replacement

[tem2169]

Can anyone tell me if the woofers used in the KLF-20 will fit and would be a good replacement for the woofers in the Quartets? If not does anyone have a recommendation? Thanks in advance for your assistance.

 

[moray james]

That is exactly what I used in my Quartet speakers. You will have to route open the rebate for the KLF20 woofer a little with a jig and router. The jig has to wit above the top of the cabinet but it was not too much fuss and turned out well in my case. I also added 2.5 ounces of dead weight to each passive radiator to re tune the speakers lower and I re damped the cabinets with high density fiberglass. I also braced the inside of the cabinet You can take a look at the link below. The result are better bass than a Forte. Some of the very best bass I have ever achieved in such a small cabinet. I did place the Quartet up on four post stands about 14 inches tall to get the mid horns to ear level which is important. You will not need subs with this set up just spend some time on position and you will be amazed. Hope this is of interest. Best regards Moray James.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=372783&highlight=klf20

 

[tem2169]

Thanks for the input. I'm a little apprehensive about routing the cabinets. Do you know if there are any other woofers in the KLF or other lines that are direct drop-ins with modern cone materials? Also, I take it you did not switch the passive radiator for one with similar cone materials to the woofer.

 

[moray james]

do you have a set of KLF20 woofers? If so I would suggest you find a friend who can help with the routing or find a small shop in need of work to do it it is very much worth it.
In terms of the comment that you made about "modern cone materials) I would say that you have been reading way to much advertizing material. I was much concerned about the KLF20 woofers being plastic and I don't care what they are loaded with they will exhibit the basic characteristics of the base alloy no matter the additives. They happen to be very good woofers. Paper top quality felted paper is still the very best cone material there is bar none.
As far as the passive goes material is not likely to make much difference but again paper is your best and safest bet. Consider the active range of perhaps15 Hz and only 5 Hz of that with any real level. A passive is simply a dead weight set on a suspension with enough travel and surface area to move the desired amount of air. A passive is just another way to make a reflex vent. You could use a piece of 3'4 inch ply wood that can make an excellent passive for extreme cases.
I did add 2.5 ounces of dead weight in the form of large flat steel washers glued to the inside of the passive in the centre for good balance. Works very well you can play down to the mid twenties. With this kind of energy you should brace the heck out of your cabinet if you don't want it to sound like jelly. Some of the finest bass I have heard from a full range loudspeaker exceptional quality well worth what ever effort you have to make. You could do the job with a chisel by hand if you were good at that sort of thing. What more can I tell you. Best regards Moray James.

 

[tem2169]

Well, you may have pointed out an error in my thinking. I don't really know much about speaker materials or why they are better. I assumed that the Poly Carbon Graphite cones in the KLF series would be better than the older Fiber-composite cones in my Quartets. If that is not the case, then I will save myself some money. I have been upgrading this set of quartets slowly based mainly on what I've read in forums and other recommendations. I upgraded my tweeter diaphragms to titanium domes, added a set of Crites crossovers and recently ordered a set of Klipsch K-53Ti Mid diaphragms. Next in my logic was to improve the woofers, but perhaps what I have, which is great shape, does not need upgraded.

 

[tem2169]

Oh, and what might add to the whole woofer issue is the fact that I have an HSU VTF-Mk3 sub that handles all the real low stuff anyway. I was just looking to tighten up anything above 80 Hz.

 

[moray james]

tem2169: the KLF20 woofers are much better woofers than the stock Quartet woofers as they have much more powerful motors. I have a pair of HSU VTF2 Mk2 subs and they are supposed to be flat to 27 Hz the Quartet's sound better without the subs in. Try raising the speakers up so the centre of the mid horn is at your seated ear level. I have posted on spider talk and how to damp it this is a significant improvement on both bass and mid quality. Check into that below. You can also look at an short thread on acoustical filtering which is also very beneficial see below. Best regards Moray James.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=441379

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=430992

 

[tem2169]

In the "spider talk" thread you mention using a layer of Dynamat on the stamped steel basket. Where are you recommending it be placed? In strips down the spokes of the basket or somewhere else? Also, would you recommend the dynamat on the back of the horns as well?

 

[moray james]

On the woofer I place a disk of dynamat on the back pole plate and I place strips of dynamat the width of the basket struts both inside and outside surfaces. You will have to make up three templates out of cardboard 1/8 inch thick. As you stack the disks of felt both the ID and the OD of each layer will change. Your templates must be made from 1/8 inch material or you will not get the right size center cut out for the VC. Each new template must be fitted with the previous template(s) in place.
When you install the felt doughnuts you will have to make a cut in the to open them. When you install each felt doughnut you need to a wide piece of wax paper beneath the seam area so you don't have adhesive going where you don't want it to. I re attach the loose ends of the cut doughnut with five daubs of white craft glue. All you need is a small amount of glue in each felt surface. You will have to babysit these joints as they set up to make sure they don't slide around on you. repeat this process til they are all done.
I use dynamat on the back side of all my horns, I cover the entire flat horn surfaces. Hope this helps. Best regards Moray James.

 

[tem2169]

Thanks Moray. I picked up some Dynamat. I'm going to try your suggestions with my current woofers first before I invest in a pair KLF20 Woofers, which I really can't find and would probably have to purchase from Klipsch. I will let you know how it turns out.

 

[tem2169]

Well, I have completed the upgrade to the mids and put dynamat on the woofer frames. I notice a hughe improvement in the detail. I also went a step further. I have never been particularly impressed with my AV Receivers for music. I had an Onkyo TX-DS797 that I thought sounded too trebly and lacked dynamics. I then purchased a Marantz SR6004 which was much warmer, but again when listening to music just never seemed to be particularly impressive. So, I decided I would create a separate system for music. I pulled my old Nakamichi Receiver 2 out of mothballs, connected the Quartets to it without the sub and WOW! Much better! Everything is much more dynamic. I cant believe this old receiver can make such a difference. I wish that Nakamichi was still making separate components. Anyway, back to the Quartets...The bass is great and lower than I expected. I really don't miss the subwoofer. I'm still considering replacing the woofers with the KLF20 woofers. With these upgrades, think these speakers would easily give me another 20 years of service.

 

[moray james]

Those speakers are capable of things you probably would not believe if I told you. Your news is excellent to hear. The Nak RE2 is an excellent receiver a long time ago I sold a lot of those. The TE3 is astoundingly good bang for the buck also if anyone sees one. Well worth buying and rebuilding. Remember they are old and well past their best before date. so a big congratulations for taking the beg step in faith and for having the nerve to try the diy path. If you never try you never find out and very often we find out like you did how wonderful the results can be. thanks for posting your results. Best regards Moray James.

 

[Evan110185]

Anyone know if there is a direct replacement for the woofer where you don't have to modify the cabinet?

Seems like one of these might work: http://stores.ebay.com/Vintage-Analog/_i.html?_nkw=Woofer&submit=Search&LH_TitleDesc=1&_sid=74457739

Or is the klf20 much better than other alternatives?

 

[tem2169]

I got the impression from Moray that there isn't an exact match with the exception of replacement quartert woofers. I am planning on purchasing a set of KLF20 woofers next month and routing the cabinet to make them fit. If there is another alternative replacement (better obviously than stock), I would certainly consider it and avoid the cabinet work.

 

[tem2169]

Well, I finally took delivery of a pair of KLF20 woofers from Klipsch. I was talking to a friend of mine who is good at woodworking about routing the rebate in the Quartet cabinets and he got me thinking. Why route and permanently alter the original cabinets when we could build a new set with real wood instead of veneered MDF? Sounds like a neat idea and a cool project, but I'm not sure that real wood like Oak, although dense, would be a good choice for speaker cabinets. Any suggestions or experience with this?

 

[moray james]

Baltic birch or Apple ply would be a better choice than solid and a composite of half BB and hald MDF would be better with the baffle being double ply. There is nothing wrong with MDF if you add some brace work. What you are suggesting is far more work and cost than simply opening up a rebate for the woofer. While you are in there why don't you install some machine screw inserts for all your drivers and install then with some epoxy and make sure you get them all in square. Congrats on this. Best regards Moray James.

take a look at the brace work on my old Quartets they are like a rock.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=372783&highlight=klf20

 

[moray james]

Well, I finally took delivery of a pair of KLF20 woofers from Klipsch. I was talking to a friend of mine who is good at woodworking about routing the rebate in the Quartet cabinets and he got me thinking. Why route and permanently alter the original cabinets when we could build a new set with real wood instead of veneered MDF? Sounds like a neat idea and a cool project, but I'm not sure that real wood like Oak, although dense, would be a good choice for speaker cabinets. Any suggestions or experience with this?

check your pm I sent you a contact address.

 

[tem2169]

Just as an update, I was removing one of the KLF20 woofers from the box and discovered that the plastic trim ring was a little loose, so I popped it off and realized that it was only cosmetic and to my surprise the woofer was a perfect fit for the existing opening. The other woofer's trim ring was glued on pretty good but came off with a little effort. They honestly look fine without the rings. There's a little glue visible around the edge but it peels off with determination. So for now, I'm sticking with the stock cabinets. I plan on bracing them with some 1x1 poplar and Gorilla Glue. I'll try an post a picture when their finished.

 

[tem2169]

Here's a photo of the finished product. They sound fabulous! Great low end punch.

 

[moray james]

Looks like it has always been there. Congrats it is a very good woofer yes. Raise them up so the centre of the mid horn is at your seated ear level which is generally 36 -39 inched off the floor. You will be astounded at the improvement in clarity and image quality. Best regards Moray James.

I would also suggest that you add 2.5 ounces of dead weight to the centre of the passives (inside each one) using some large steel flat washers glued in place this will provide a deeper bass tuning for your cabinet, this amounts to lengthening the cents or ports in a reflex design.