Question about 8track audio quality

[anonyme-x22]

What, RTR, sorry you're wrong RTR specially the 7.5/15 IPS two track are the best sound in the world!
Vinyl as good as 7.5ips 2 Track or 15Ips two track if 45RPM or 78RPM, however more prone to dust/scratch, and heavily dependent of the pressing plant quality.
Personally down to 3.75ips 4 track if optimal deck setting still excellent!
Cassette is below 8 track or "better" (speed still twice lower) if latest dolby and deck on ferric tape. The sound of cassette is very compressed sound quite like digital but without phase distortion! 8 Track is more open and lively but lack again and again more serious/advanced deck!
Digital as convenient as bad!

Be objectif!
RTR the most used gear to make audio document bad enough!
Cassette better than RTR!
Nonsense.

 

[tourmax]

I've still got a couple 8 track players, one is a quadraphonic. I only use the quad these days. The others sit in storage gathering dust, their belts removed from their pulleys (and in baggies) so they don't damage the zinc/zamak/pot metal pulleys on the motor or capstan drive if/when the belt goes to "goo".

However, I only have the one tape that I listen to now (ELO) and that's because it was my dad's and I remember him playing it in the 442.

The real problem in an 8 track player is the way it feeds the tape and that the entire head mechanism moves when it changes tracks.

The way the capstan feeds the tape, when it does stick, it will spool the entire tape off into the deck before there's any indication of a problem. Same if the tape splice lets go; it will feed to entire tape out of the cassette and into the deck. Or at least until it jams. That usually results in having to "rip" it out of the player and the destruction of your tape. When 8 track was all the rage in mobile audio, you'd find balled up carts on the side of the road all the time. People would rip them out of the deck and it would go stright out the window.

The capstan wears out pretty quickly as the traction surface polishes up fairly quickly, which causes tape feed issues. That one capstand does all the feeding work in the player and that's why it wears quickly. Adding insult to injury is the fact the capstan is buriied way down deep in th player, so even a simple cleaning is a difficult task. One that, as a result, just didn't usually get done.

I had to develop a "sandblasting" technique to rebuild them when I fix an 8 track player. Before rebuild, worn capstans cause wow, flutter, jamming and "tape eating".

Before:



The same capstan after:

The fact the whole head mechanism moves makes it very difficult to dial in the azimuth properly and even if you do completely eliminate the crosstalk, it's only a matter of time before it comes back. Anyone remember the "matchbook fix"? It's just a limit of the design.

It's one of the reasons I keep the quad player: Has twice the sensors and the head moves half as much. Basically, it picks up the first on two heads, switches and electronic relay to pick up the next channel, then moves the head to pick up the 3rd channel and goes to the relays again to pick up the 4th channel. So the head mechanically moves half as much a "regular" 8 track head. Easier to keep the azimuth in adjustment and it holds it longer.

The sound problem is that 8 track eventually starts to suffer loss of highs. Again, it's just a limitation of the design. It's the way the tape goes on/off the "endless spool". The tape is always rubbing against itself going loose or tight, which inevitably damages the tape itself.

On top that stuff, they also suffer the usual vintage equipment issues. IE: out of adjust, dried caps, belts turned to goo, etc.

I'm the only one who will have anything to do with them here now. We're talking within at least a 2000 kms radius. And even then, it's a "friends and family" type of thing only. Not that there's a lot of call for it anyways. Every 6 or so months the "word of mouth" web sends someone my way, but they're not serious about fixing it. I quote them a "reasonable" price and off they go. There's no real interest in 8 track these days, other than the occasional "curious George".

Vintage cassettes are virtually "unplayable" now. Not because the sound is horrible, but because several components in the cassette itself have deteriorated. They were built as cheap sources of music and they just don't stand up well to time.

The tape splices are either separated or on borrowed time (play and original these days at your own peril) and the foam pads are long crumbled into dust. Even if you're lucky enough to have a cassette with the felt spring pads (instead of the self crumbling foam), you still have to deal with the pinch roller in the cassette itself that has often turned to goo. The cassettes just haven't aged well. It's fixable, but it's one more PITA that you won't get with a compact cassette. Parts for cassettes are also hard to find, unless you're like me and have a fairly large amount of the better cassettes stored (crap music, good pieces, cassettes are kept for their parts).

Dad's cassette has been rebuilt. I had to do a new tape splice, rewind the tap eon the endless spool, then replace the crumbled foam pad with a set of spring felts and finally, a good rubber pinch roller. These carts were never intended to last this long, so they all need some type of rebuilding. Dad's car twas worth it, but only to me. If I hadn't rebuilt it, it was only a matter of time until it would have been "eaten".

Don't get me wrong, I like 8 track. That big old funky "kachunk" brings back memories of driving the Olds with Dad. It's fun and different. Interesting in some ways too. Both for playback and to repair.

But the medium and the equipment just has inherent limitations. I wouldn't consider it a viable "HiFi" medium. It can sound good, but it's a lot more work than say vinyl or compact cassette and it never wuite matches them. Forget CD's, 8 track just doesn't stand a chance there.

It takes a lot of EQ for me to get it to sound "acceptable" to me. Vinyl (needs no EQ) and cassette (needs some EQ) both can blow it into the weeds for me sound wise. It's was ok for mobile environments, especially when there was no other choice.

Not surprising considering it was originally designed to play "filler" music on Learjets in flight. Literally invented by Bill Lear (designer of the Learjet) for use in executive travel. . Not a lot for call for sound quality inside a jet in flight. Not exactly a quiet environment......he just wanted something to give the passenger an "upscale" feel.

Fun and funky?

Yep.

High quality audio?

Not so much.

They can sound "good" with some work, but you'll get the same result with a neglected TT or cassette deck. You'll blow it away if the TT or CC are kept in decent nick.....but still, they're fun for a change now and then.

Not to mention the memories of Dad and the Cutlass 442......"kachunk".

 

[spicer]

What, RTR, sorry you're wrong RTR specially the 7.5/15 IPS two track are the best sound in the world!
Vinyl as good as 7.5ips 2 Track or 15Ips two track if 45RPM or 78RPM, however more prone to dust/scratch, and heavily dependent of the pressing plant quality.
Personally down to 3.75ips 4 track if optimal deck setting still excellent!
Cassette is below 8 track or "better" (speed still twice lower) if latest dolby and deck on ferric tape. The sound of cassette is very compressed sound quite like digital but without phase distortion! 8 Track is more open and lively but lack again and again more serious/advanced deck!
Digital as convenient as bad!

Be objectif!
RTR the most used gear to make audio document bad enough!
Cassette better than RTR!
Nonsense.

I had a Sony TC 228, used 80 minute tape, no pre records. It made great tapes, no cross talk, no jams, no describable wow and flutter with the music I recorded. I let it record through the track change, no head switch thump, just a quick break. I had stacked Advents at the time and it sounded good. Sounded good in the car with rear mounted 6x9 Jensens coaxials, Pioneer 8 track, floating ground external power amp. The thing had good sound. Also, had a decent reel to reel which sounded better, as good as the record it recorded. Good digital is very good, I'm talking my experience with eight track.

 

[hemiram]

I never heard any 8-Track recordings that sounded any better than the (IMHO) awful sound of most prerecorded cassettes. A friend of mine used to buy them until I made him a cassette copy of whatever LP it was and that was the end of the prerecorded cassettes. I sold him a Teac deck and a brick of blank hi bias and off he went. That deck was around for almost 40 years before it went dead and he gave it away. The track switching and just warbly sound of 8-Tracks made me decide really quickly I wanted no part of it.

 

[anonyme-x22]

Tell me that the sound is awful again, you bad faith.

Despite again issue with the cartridge and/or moving head precision, it sound good, not audiophile, but much descent for background listening, and that's all we want instead of digital which sucks by any way!

"digital get away parenthesis"
I spend my days listening/analysing digital, it sucks, cd is the worst format ever produced commercially.
When you get higher 192Khz-768Khz it start to be better, but still the mid are grainy, and the high are just distortion.
People thinks because it's agressive, loud, harsh, it's better! They are totally false.
Just try to listen 4 Hours of digital, then the next 4Hours of a good RTR 7.5IPS 4 track, without any pause after this switch back to digital , you won't stay 10s.
People have most of the time are underrating the inexistent audio memory and do not know how to compare things, nor have most of the analog support to do it!
Just generate a sin wave and play with it from 1Khz to 22Khz!
You won't believe how much phase distortion it got and very much audible even at 192Khz!
Try it below 44Khz, ex: 22Khz it's just a whole new sound even if in the frequency range!!!
No digital sucks for sure, even mastering engineers know this, but again it's as bad as convenient.
People by def are lazy and choose the most convenient and cheaper over the best quality and pricey!
But when you're stuck with only digital sound to feed you ears for years, i can assure you than even a 8 track will be heaven!
Of course you can spent 100000$ to get a descent sound, but i don't think it's wise, and anyway better, as the digital is corrupted at it's almost base, the data.
A test that everyone can do easily it to put a vinyl record or whatever analog source in direct onto the sound card, record a passage min 192Khz, and listen it back, it's incredible the sound has changed in worst forever.
I've learned it from burnie, when i leaned that, i found that just impossible, but he was so right!
"digital get away end of parenthesis"

By the way the moving mechanism can suffer misalignment cause car vibration, certainly that's why the azimuth knob was present in most car player.
However in home use, the issue is unlikely!

The convenience is at most in this one!
The 4 track cartridge were better but not as convenience.

Yeah i agree most pre-recorded tape needs:
+20db for 16hz-32hz-?64hz? still not sure how much for this one
+20db from 8Khz-16Khz-32Khz
Sound excellent like this!

On New Recorded tape, just a little boost below 50Hz.

Regarding the loss of high, i'm still experiencing from my newer recording, but it don't seems to loose so much.

For the rest of course the device need full recap, cleaning, lub, and cal.
As for the cart, new pad, lub, new pinch roller.
But today as there is some resurgence, most cart are fixed which is i think a very bad thing as price sky rocket!
However as i want to use as background new fresh home made tape, old pre-recorded tape....

In search of the most convenient analog background music support...

Ps: @tourmax stay in live forever why need people like you!

 

[hemiram]

I had a couple of mid level RTR decks before I got my first semi decent cassette deck in '69 or '70. It was a Concord, no Dolby, and made decent sounding tapes, as long as you weren't listening in a quiet room or with headphones. I had no problem with RTR except the cost of the bigger reels of tape. My first good deck was my Panasonic/Technics(My present one has Technics on it, the one I bought in '71 was Panasonic)RS276US. It was and is a very solid performer that makes pretty close to 3 head level recordings. Friends who had Advent 201, and the Wallensak clone or close were pretty bummed out by how much better my tapes sounded then theirs did. This bad pic(I had just moved and I had a phone with a bad camera, and everything was dusty) is of the second one, the first one had the capstan motor die after many years and just after I gave up and parted it out, several NOS motors turned up on Ebay. I got the second one, in like new condition for something like $40, shipping included. As heavy as it is, I basically got the deck itself for free. My M45 was bought in 1979, and has never had a problem in all these years. My Onkyo and Aiwa decks are just memories, they just didn't seem to last. The M45 has a ton of hours on it, probably 3x what the 276 did. A friend as a M45 and it's sole issue has been the counter died and only the right hand digit moves, the others just shake.