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Question for Realisitic Nova Experts

The next picture is the woofer, but zoomed in also. I'm seeing that the impedance of this woofer at above 1KHz is huge at 30 ohms. Does this look right? The only point it is near 8 ohms is around 100Hz or near zero. Assuming I plug in the actual impedance near the cross-over frequency vs. the DC resistance then I've done my parts purchase based on that original calculator wrong.

Nova_7B_Woofer_Imp1.png
 
The next picture is the woofer, but zoomed in also. I'm seeing that the impedance of this woofer at above 1KHz is huge at 30 ohms. Does this look right? The only point it is near 8 ohms is around 100Hz or near zero. Assuming I plug in the actual impedance near the cross-over frequency vs. the DC resistance then I've done my parts purchase based on that original calculator wrong.

Looks like a typical woofer impedance curve. The impedance rise can be flattened with a Zobel network.
 
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Looks like a typical woofer impedance curve. The impedance rise can be flattened with a Zobel network:
http://audiojudgement.com/impedance-equalization-circuit-zobel-network/

Hmm. Zobel network. Yes. That curve rises rather quickly and at 30-ish ohms at cross-over there is probably a need to correct that. Looks relatively easy to do based on the link. How does a Zobel network affect the sensitivity of the driver? I'm guessing it decreases the sensitivity, but I'm not sure.
 
How does a Zobel network affect the sensitivity of the driver? I'm guessing it decreases the sensitivity, but I'm not sure.

I'm not seeing where sensitivity would decrease. A solid state amp is (nearly always) a voltage source. With Zobel being wired in parallel, the driver still sees the same voltage that it would without the Zobel. And it will continue to draw whatever current it needs. But with Zobel neutralizing the inductive impedance rise, wouldn't that have the effect of increasing sensitivity as frequency rises, compared to the raw driver?

Hmmm ... if I cracked a book I haven't viewed in decades and worked the maths I'd probably hurt myself. Should be easy enough to check though by running a sweep with and without Zobel and compare SPL results across the woofer's frequency range.
 
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I'm not seeing where sensitivity would decrease. A solid state amp is (nearly always) a voltage source. With Zobel being wired in parallel, the driver still sees the same voltage that it would without the Zobel. And it will continue to draw whatever current it needs. But with Zobel neutralizing the inductive impedance rise, wouldn't that have the effect of increasing sensitivity as frequency rises, compared to the raw driver?

Hmmm ... if I cracked a book I haven't viewed in decades and worked the maths I'd probably hurt myself. Should be easy enough to check though by running a sweep with and without Zobel and compare SPL results across the woofer's frequency range.

My concern is that the Zobel network is passive and dissipative. On the surface without any data it just leaves me with the sense that it will reduce sensitivity as it shunts away part of the signal. Again no data, but that is my concern.
 
The voltage to the woofer will be the same. Yes a zobel network will shunt power back to ground through the cap and resistor. But will have no effect on the woofer itself. A zobel can make a crossover design easier as it flattens the impedance. There are circumstances where a zobel is desirable like when the impedance of the driver goes up rapidly and the inductor and capacitor values would be very large. Then you might have problems with the lower end of the frequency response.
 
Hi all, I'm late to the party here but I came to this thread with the same questions as the OP and have read this amazing discussion with great interest. Seems like by early 2017 Tim D had learned that designing a good 2nd order crossover for the 7b woofer would not just involve a 15uF cap and a 1.0 mH cool because the woofer's impedance at the intended crossover point is actually nowhere near 8ohm. Thus a good solution would also require a zobel network to tame that impedance. Tim, if you're still out there, did you ever investigate what such a solution would look like?
 
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Well sadly it seems no one has designed a true two-way crossover for the Nova 7b. One tidbit that might interest folks with these speakers: although it is true that the original mid/tweets are 16 ohm (pn 0705ae) wired in parallel to give 8 ohm, with a 2nd order chebychev crossover at 1325Hz, if you play around with crossover calculators you will find that 8ohm mid-tweets such as pn 0725ac will work just as well. Together they give 4 ohm, but at 4 ohms the stock crossover (15uf cap and 1.0mH coil) still crosses over at 1325. The only difference is that it changes the 2nd order crossover type from Chebyshev to Linkwitz-Riley. Not bad! So basically it's not too necessary to insist on the 16-ohm original spec. 0725ac 8hm have the same wide range as the original 0705Ae 16ohm - 350-18k. So unless you think Chebyshev vs L-R is critical, I think either would be good choices.
 
A couple of months ago, completely without seeing this thread, I did what some posters in this thread and elsewhere has been tip-toeing around, but never seemed to actually do: I put a mirror image second order crossover on the woofer of my Nova 7B's.

I use these speakers in my living room for 2-channel stereo and 5.1 video and multichannel music use. For a center channel I had been using a Pioneer SP-BS21LR. The Pioneer worked for that purpose but the tonal difference was obvious even with AVR DSP. So I've been looking for another single or pair of Nova 7B's to use one as a center channel. While looking, it seemed like a good time to experiment with putting a crossover on the woofers.

I used the same values as the tweeters, wired for use on the woofers. Got the parts from Parts-Express, and assembled the crossovers appropriately. (1mh coil in line with the + woofer terminal, 15mfd cap across the + and - of the woofer, and reversed the + and - on the tweeters as should be done on a second order filter.)

Discussion of woofer impedance and Zobel networks aside, the results have been nothing short of amazing. Previously, while the speakers sounded very good with just an upgraded cap on the tweeters, (I did that over 15 years ago and used Solen 400V caps) with a true crossover on the woofers, the clarity in the mids is better by an order of magnitude. The imaging is also greatly upgraded with a much more solid phantom center (the most notable and dramatic improvement) and a bigger soundstage "spread" with the speakers "disappearing" much more than before on appropriate recordings, despite the diffraction nightmare of the deep inset baffle and molded plastic grille. Differences in masterings between the same material is much more apparent.

And I finally found a pair of 7B's on Craigslist for a great price a few weeks ago! I modded those speakers as well. Now I have a matching center channel speaker and it has done wonders for improving the sound for 5.1 duty. Dialogue and lateral pans now sound of a whole though almost certainly because of the baffle and grille, the center channel doesn't seem to "float" like it did with the Pioneer. The sound is always coming from the speaker. Maybe the totally new crossover needs to break in more. (I did the other pair about three months before the ones I just got.) I'll have to see.

It was an incredibly worthwhile upgrade. I can only imagine what completing Tim D's work might offer for even better results. It's a shame I am not able to do that, otherwise I would.

Random notes:

1. Before the mod, when moving my head up and down, one could hear the sound change due to interference of the two tweeters with each other as well as between the tweeters and the woofer. But this is a common phenomenon with vertically inline speakers so it never really bothered me too much, and the upgraded crossover doesn't really change that.

What always did bother me though was the change in sound when moving my head horizontally while in my sweet spot. I assume this was a consequence of the woofers being run full range and the 12dB crossover on the tweeters. Putting a crossover on the woofer dramatically lowered this "horizontal distortion". I can move my head side to side without the sound changing character much at all now. (It does change some, but that's probably the lobing interference with the two tweeters and diffraction from the baffle/grille, I'm guessing.)

2. The speakers sound just slightly "thinner" (or maybe it could be called less mid-heavy) than before and maybe a tad less efficient, which would be logical since the woofer is no longer contributing considerable output past the 1325Hz crossover point for the tweeters. This thinness though makes them sound tonally more like my Paradigm Studio Reference 100v3's in my main setup and the ATC SCM150ASL's in my studio at work. Not a bad thing!!

3. Did I mention the incredible improvement in the phantom center channel? The 7B's after the original cap upgrade on the tweeter always had what I thought was surprisingly good imaging especially given that baffle and grille. But now...seriously...it almost sounds like the center channel speaker is in use when listening in 2-channel. That's how solid it sounds. Which is weird...I didn't expect that. The sweet spot has expanded as well. Sitting off-center on the couch doesn't have the center imaging collapse as badly as before.

4. One of the Nova 7B's I got from Craigslist had dead tweeters according to the seller. That was okay with me since I really only wanted one for a center channel but after benching the "broken" one I found out the tweeters were fine, it was the cap in the crossover that had gone blooey at some point. That makes me wonder if some of the blown tweeters people talk about in this model were actually issues with the cap in the crossover. Or maybe I was just incredibly lucky! :idea:

5. Now...maybe I'll look for a pair of Nova 6's for use as my surround speakers and get 'em all "in the family."

6. I now have one extra fully modded 7B. Lord knows what I will do with it. :rflmao:
 
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