Pio1980
AK Member
"Swamp-ass", the bane of humid climes.
Random Thoughts or Whatever
- Thread starter whoaru99
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MuseChaser
Super Member
I've read a bunch of is books, although many years ago, and enjoyed them. Those quotes are WONDERFUL! Thanks for sharing them...I hadn't heard or seen any of them previously.
Number 2 I find especially poignant today.
And possibly the most important quote of his, and the one that way too many people refuse to acknowledge as truth:
TANSTAAFL (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch).
Regards,
Gordon.
noogies
My Favorite Woofers.
noogies
My Favorite Woofers.
I would tend to agree, because I'm all about personal accountability, except: Ever since the end of WW II we've had it shoved down our throats that the only way to get anywhere in life is with a post-secondary education, to the extent that in many cases these days, a degree is required (or at least preferred) for the most menial, routine drone work. It's very hard to get hired for anything beyond stocking shelves at WalMart without one.
I am a member of the last generation of folks that were able to make a comfortable living with nothing but a high school diploma. I suffered no hindrances and was able to perform my job well despite this barrier. Now, to do what I did you need two degrees.
The emperor has no clothes -- there is no practical need to obtain elite certification to perform most of the tasks people do for a living and the sooner people stop throwing money at "institutes of higher learning," the better and richer we'll all be.
So yes, I guess I have a little sympathy for students who are hoodwinked into spending a fortune on a worthless education that gains them nothing.
Mystic
We're all born mad
I am from that same generation and probably same sub-segment of that same generation as y'all and I'll concur w/ your points. I happened to have eventually landed at universities to earn advanced degrees that, lacking, I would not have landed the work I have been doing since circa 1990. But in the decade prior to that schooling, I had a great job in armed forces that required HD diploma only and in which I could have remained for 20 and retire sufficiently young to go onto other things. but even that decade @ military paid for all subsequent schooling tuitions & housing plus a stipend above those costs. I dunno if even this strategy is a viable option in 21st century USA.
noogies
My Favorite Woofers.
I dunno either, but I have a feeling not.
Mystic
We're all born mad
I'll ask around my LI group, still some actives among us, see what the educational, etc. benefits are these days. Maybe it depends on branch a/o type of service w/in branch ... it did even a little bit back @ the late 1970s > late 1980s.... we thought of it as the high-risk/hazardous (odious?) billets benefits enhancement coefficent.
Mystic
We're all born mad
In fact, military aside, maybe the only other job sector @ which one can do as we did all those years ago is to be involved in IT-related work? Think of a guy like Ed Snowden, who struggled w/ formal academic settings but found he could score a few certs and then land rather well-paying work in MIC-related IT work. Maybe that's still going on @ MIC and other corporate sectors w/ high demand for tech excellence, hang the formal "college" degree stuff?
infullview
Super Member
It's very sad that we don't fund land grant universities like they used to. Going to a state college is almost as expensive as an ivy league school now. It really sucks that kids graduate facing enormous debt - and most struggle with a budget to pay off a loan that will last over 20 years. I was lucky enough to find a work situation in the 1980's that paid well enough to allow me to pay off all my student loans in 3 years and then supported my return to school to finish a degree by allowing me to take educational leave of absence and still have a job when the semester was over. While working in the high-tech computer industry I saw the importance of a degree, and knew I would not obtain a satisfying career without it. I worked R&D for many years before my job was eventually shipped overseas.
invaderzim
Super Member
It is time to require all colleges and universities to provide students what their job opportunities in their chosen major will be, what they will pay and what the graduate placement rate is for those jobs.
It is time to start slapping all the "Chase your dreams, do what you love and you will never work a day in your life" people. I didn't tell anyone that so why should I have to pay? I tell them to find a career that they are okay with and pays enough to be able to pursue the hobbies they love.
I do see the degree requirement for some jobs as a pain (especially as someone without one) but a big problem is people go to schools they can't afford because loan money is so easy to get. I know state schools are expensive too but there are often less expensive options that just aren't as 'in'. I get it, it feels good to be 'accepted' or wanted by a fancy school; but get over it and focus on learning.
It is a spiral of the schools get more expensive because money is easy for the students to get.
There are still plenty of trades that can supply a good living without 4 years of overpriced school. I know a lot of people that did the 2 or 4 years and then went into jobs they would have gotten without the degree. I know a person with 4 year art degree working at a car dealer. Which is still better than the girlfriend of a co-worker that used her student loan money for a boob job.
People also tend to forget that we are already subsidizing state and community college tuition. Our tax dollars are already paying a big chunk of their college bill.
It is super insulting that we worked hard to pay off my wife's student loans and I skipped college because of the cost and yet people expect us to also pay off their loans? Will we get a refund of what we paid on hers? Will someone pay me the difference I'd have made if I had a degree?
I'm tired of being punished for making good, difficult choices. Back in the early 2000's we bought a home we could afford and never took more money out of it as the 'value' shot up. Meanwhile the people that took all the equity out of their home in 2007 and bought all the toys, just walked away or got bailed out of part of their loan. I read heartbreaking article after heartbreaking article on these poor people that took $200,000 out of their home to buy their wife a minivan and then their home was worth so much less that it wasn't worth making the payments. I guess they forgot to mention what they did with the other $160,000....
And finally, I wish they wouldn't call it loan forgiveness. It is taxpayers pay the loans off. The loan amount doesn't just go 'poof' and disappear.
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Same here, but's that's just how life is. There's no reward for paying off your bills and living within ( or below ) your means. There's no shows on TV showing how much stress free life can be with no mortgage, or car payments, or whatever.
Quadman2
Lunatic Member
"Quotes" are "wonderful!
Now to get some to "walk the talk".
Lao Tzu a long time ago said, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step".
Q
10,000 reasons
infullview
Super Member
If you did this we would have no musicians, actors, literature majors, poets, archaeologists, etc. etc. because these jobs don't pay unless you get a grant or get really great in your field while waiting tables for a living.
You have a point with this, but if the state and federal government had done their part to hold up funding for secondary education to begin with we wouldn't have students smothering in severe debt. Not only did we punish kids with smothering debt, conservative legislation made laws that exempted school loans and credit card debt from bankruptcy. What the hell is bankruptcy court for then?
invaderzim
Super Member
So, you are saying we should trick people into becoming artists? Maybe at the very least they should be aware that a high end private school isn't the best place for their degree. Maybe the expensive schools would have to lower their prices if they wanted people to study those things with them.
How many really good actors went to expensive schools to learn their trade?
The average yearly cost of tuition and fees to an in-state public 4 year school in the US in 2018-2019 was $9,212. A public in-state 2 year school averaged $3,313. With even just a part-time job to help offset living expenses (with roommates) there is no reason to be smothered in debt with that. Go to community college for the first two years and then an in-state for the last 2 and it is under $30,000 for the full degree.
If rent is too expensive and you can't live at home and commute to school then look at moving to a location where there is a school and lower rent. My Niece had so many roommates at one point for a semester in an expensive city that her 'room' was half the living room. Somehow she survived. In reality it likely made her a better person because she understands working to improve your lifestyle.
Go out of state and it jumps to $26,000, go private and it is $32,000. Get a nice apartment and a good car and it gets more expensive. It is the fancy schools, fancy locations away from mom and dad and the cushy lifestyle that leaves them smothered.
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