Thunderbox
Super Member
You don't want to use it at 10%. It should be used at .2 to .3%
Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods
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Thunderbox
Super Member
That is way too much X-100 you only need .3%.Meticulouslyadded 1 liquor cap of X-100 and 3 liquor caps of IPA into 6L tank. I was winging it to see how well it might work. Seems I should be using measuring cups to get the formula just right.
Temperature I typically use is 31-35 deg C. I do not trust the tank thermometer as the temp seems to shoot up again when the Ultrasonic is on so that's another investment I need to make.
Hey Oscar, it almost appears to me that you took that picture of your tank while the thing was ON, is that correct? If so, turn it off and let the debris settle to the bottom and then take another shot. That would be a fair comparison to my picture. While the transducers are on, there will not be much visible because of the turbulence, which is what it appears to be I'm seeing in your picture, along with the "pattern" at the bottom of the tank.
oscarinovp
Active Member
That picture is what it looked like after overnight "settling". My prior batches looked more like your pictures so maybe there was a problem with the last "brew batch" and/or the LPs were already pretty clean and/or the Ultrasonic (US) was not working so well ???!
valicious
AK Member
Brand new to cleaning vinyl. When you say IPA, do you mean isopropyl? @Fishead I’m going to use your clean solution from your great post.
Are these the three ingredients you need?
Equifect 256 – EPA-Registered Hospital-Grade Disinfectant
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074TK7NSX/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A14J0YPUWH6LQ8&psc=1
Biopharm Triton X-100 Surfactant (500 m
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SGY8LRC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A27LSZ6R5SYNQU&psc=1
Isopropyl Alcohol 99%
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HSQDN5H/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ANIRCRG2JNTAP&psc=1
Sorry if these are really obvious questions, but I’m brand new to chemicals like this. Are these fair or wildly overpriced?
Are these the three ingredients you need?
Equifect 256 – EPA-Registered Hospital-Grade Disinfectant
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074TK7NSX/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A14J0YPUWH6LQ8&psc=1
Biopharm Triton X-100 Surfactant (500 m
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SGY8LRC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A27LSZ6R5SYNQU&psc=1
Isopropyl Alcohol 99%
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HSQDN5H/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ANIRCRG2JNTAP&psc=1
Sorry if these are really obvious questions, but I’m brand new to chemicals like this. Are these fair or wildly overpriced?
Valicious, I'm not using Equifect, that is what oscarinovp said he was using and after looking at it in the link you provide, I am not sure at all about the percentage of that to use as it seems the concentration may be very different from the Hepastat 256 that I am using. The container it comes in is 16oz, where the Hepastat comes in a 64oz size. The price for the Equifect is pretty high at $2.91 per oz, whereas the Hepastat is about $0.43 per oz. This might be a good question for the chemists amongst us, as in Phantomrebel.
I am going to suggest going back to my earlier post (#2177) wherein the formula is given for the solution that I make using Hepastat. Hepastat was readily available from my Walmart store by ordering it and having it delivered to my address, which took all of 3 days. Here's the link, but I see they are currently out of stock:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Brighton...er-Handy-Mix-Dilutable-64-Oz-760097/576898277
You might want to do a search and see if you can come up with another vendor. During these challenging times of the pandemic, disinfectants such as this may be much harder to obtain. I have already seen that as well with trying to get 91% IPA, but patience will be rewarded if you are persistent.
I can only provide information regarding what I have personally used, and the Equifect 256 IS NOT amongst the ingredients in the formula I am using. Therefore, be so advised and whatever you do, PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE WARNINGS ABOUT HOW TO HANDLE THIS STUFF!!! In such high concentrations, it is most dangerous if you get it on your skin and don't immediately rinse it thoroughly. It is also ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL THAT YOU WEAR EYE PROTECTION WHEN WORKING WITH THESE CHEMICALS. Don't get in a hurry and neglect these warnings as you can do a lot of damage very quickly.
Further, if you should find the Hepastat, heed the cautions about how to get the dispensing device out of the spout of the bottle. You will not be able to get anything out of the bottle without first removing it and how to do that is described earlier in this thread. Look at post #1999 where OllieMeyer explains how he got the dispenser device out of the bottle. Then continue reading where I describe in post #2001 what my process to get it out was. Again, GO SLOWLY AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS FOR REMOVAL AT YOUR OWN RISK! All that said, and I'm not exaggerating one bit, it took a lot of study and re-reading posts on this thread until the light bulb went on and I was able to remove the dispensing device and all has been very well since.
Yes, IPA is isopropyl alcohol, just an abbreviation. In my opinion, you will not need 99% IPA, and at that price you will be much better off just buying 91% IPA again, at your local Walmart for about $2.50 for 32oz. At least that is what I am using and based on everything I've read here, will do the job just fine. Walmart tends to run out of the stuff because of covid, but if you are patient, you will find some there. Just did a search and Walmart is out of stock on the 91% but you can order 70% at about $2 for a 32oz bottle. You can use this and just increase the amount you use proportionate to the percentages. Hence, I was using 72ml of 91% IPA. Increase that to 88ml if you are using 70% IPA and you should be in the ball park.
So, using 70% IPA the formula would look like this:
50ml Triton
38ml Hepastat
88ml IPA 70%
Total = 176ml so divide this by 8 (8 tanks) and you get 22ml per tank instead of 20ml. Not very different at all. Similarly, when you add IPA to the solution of 5 quarts in your tank of distilled, instead of 150ml, add about 180ml which should take the concentration of the IPA up to close to what you would have if you are using the 91% IPA.
The price for the Triton looks reasonable, about what I paid.
Hope you got this and didn't get lost in my attempts to clarify and specify things. The thing to remember is how very little of the ingredients you are actually using compared to the distilled water. It does not take much to create a very powerful cleanser when using the US machine.
Don't be afraid to ask more questions because this is something you will want to be very clear on before you go forth. And, I'm very open to being corrected should my computations be found incorrect by someone who is better at math than I am!
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oscarinovp
Active Member
Do a search on "Quat 256", I tried to find Hepastat 256 but it was not readily available. There are some other varients which should work. The following website suggested trying to find the active ingredients in concentrated form to reduce the number of inert contaminants (also useful for reducing shipping costs). The stuff I bought is going to last a LONG time; it'll probably go through several cleaning cycles of my admittedly modest record collection.
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/rushton-paul-diy-approach-ultrasonic-cleaning-lps/
I will agree I probably overpaid for the 256 stuff. Amazon, per usual, always likes to send me targeted ads on stuff I have already bought.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08622NFKP/ref=pe_2313390_544209150_em_1p_0_lm
I agree you don't need 99% alcohol since you have to dilute it anyway.
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/rushton-paul-diy-approach-ultrasonic-cleaning-lps/
I will agree I probably overpaid for the 256 stuff. Amazon, per usual, always likes to send me targeted ads on stuff I have already bought.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08622NFKP/ref=pe_2313390_544209150_em_1p_0_lm
I agree you don't need 99% alcohol since you have to dilute it anyway.
oscarinovp
Active Member
Just to be clear, IPA in this context is not a reference to Indian Pale Ales such as Dogfish Head 90 minute IPA.
Oscar, the link above to Rushton's article.....that is basically where I got my ideas for the formulation that I am using along with the information here from Phantomrebel.
And again, I'm not sure about the Equifect but you might shoot Phantomrebel a PM and ask him. Ask not only if it is a suitable agent, but also the amount you should be putting in your mixture as the ingredients seem to be somewhat different and not the same ratios as in the Hepastat.
Stay on it, you'll get it just right before you know it....the idea is to get the records as clean as possible whilst doing no harm!
And again, I'm not sure about the Equifect but you might shoot Phantomrebel a PM and ask him. Ask not only if it is a suitable agent, but also the amount you should be putting in your mixture as the ingredients seem to be somewhat different and not the same ratios as in the Hepastat.
Stay on it, you'll get it just right before you know it....the idea is to get the records as clean as possible whilst doing no harm!
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valicious
AK Member
I set Phantomrebel a PM, but there’s been no response.
I’ve been following the guide for ultrasonic cleaning on Positive-Feedback. It calls for Hepastat 256, but everywhere is sold out. Would Equifect 256 be a viable alternative? If not, what then?
Equifect 256
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074TK7NSX/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A14J0YPUWH6LQ8&psc=1
Ultrasonic cleaning guide
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/rushton-paul-diy-approach-ultrasonic-cleaning-lps/
I’ve been following the guide for ultrasonic cleaning on Positive-Feedback. It calls for Hepastat 256, but everywhere is sold out. Would Equifect 256 be a viable alternative? If not, what then?
Equifect 256
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074TK7NSX/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A14J0YPUWH6LQ8&psc=1
Ultrasonic cleaning guide
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/rushton-paul-diy-approach-ultrasonic-cleaning-lps/
oscarinovp
Active Member
From an earlier Phantomrebel post:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...-possible-methods.689430/page-51#post-9915064
Try comparing the ingredient list for Hepastat 256, Equifect 256 or any other "Quad 256" formulation to see if it might work.
e.g.
valicious
AK Member
Hepastat 256 is 21.7% quat according to the two links below. The Staples one just listed % quat, but the Hawaii.gov document breaks it down into ingredients.
http://sds.staples.com/tds/24321401TDS.pdf
http://hawaii.gov/hdoa/labels/8731.4_2018.pdf
According to the image on the side of the bottle of on Amazon, Equifect 256 is 17.9% quat.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61BfRgpgDPL._AC_SX679_.jpg
21.7/17.9 is about 1.21, so the concentration of Equifect would need to be 121% of what it was using Hepastat. The concentration of Hepastat in the Positive-Feedback guide was 0.1% (1:1000), so our new concentration using Equifect would be 0.12% (1:833)
I know math, but the area of chemicals is a new foray for me. If you see an error in anything above, please point it out.
http://sds.staples.com/tds/24321401TDS.pdf
http://hawaii.gov/hdoa/labels/8731.4_2018.pdf
According to the image on the side of the bottle of on Amazon, Equifect 256 is 17.9% quat.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61BfRgpgDPL._AC_SX679_.jpg
21.7/17.9 is about 1.21, so the concentration of Equifect would need to be 121% of what it was using Hepastat. The concentration of Hepastat in the Positive-Feedback guide was 0.1% (1:1000), so our new concentration using Equifect would be 0.12% (1:833)
I know math, but the area of chemicals is a new foray for me. If you see an error in anything above, please point it out.
oscarinovp
Active Member
I knew Equifect was slightly lower in concentration. You saved me from doing even the simple math. Thanks. I'm using a 6L tank and I suspect simple distilled water with ultrasonic session would take care of much of the grime. A smidgen of Triton and Equifect 256 (with a bit of isopropyl to improve solubility) is just icing on the cake.
The Equifect is very expensive (compared to previous prices on Hepastat). I suspect the COVID pandemic has a lot to do with this. It should last you quite a while; I will likely be able to clean all my records several times before I run out of solution.
And to repeat an earlier warning, concentrated 256 is dangerous for your skin so wear gloves/eye protection when dealing with the concentrated stuff.
The Equifect is very expensive (compared to previous prices on Hepastat). I suspect the COVID pandemic has a lot to do with this. It should last you quite a while; I will likely be able to clean all my records several times before I run out of solution.
And to repeat an earlier warning, concentrated 256 is dangerous for your skin so wear gloves/eye protection when dealing with the concentrated stuff.
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valicious
AK Member
I go to purchase the Equifect, and the item page has been deleted. I’ll post a new link if I find it in stock anywhere.
EDIT
It looks like you can order directly from the manufacturer’s website for cheaper than it was at Amazon
https://www.equibal.com/equifect-256-16-oz-bottle-disinfectant-cleaner-fungicide-virucide/
EDIT
It looks like you can order directly from the manufacturer’s website for cheaper than it was at Amazon
https://www.equibal.com/equifect-256-16-oz-bottle-disinfectant-cleaner-fungicide-virucide/
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oscarinovp
Active Member
Here's another option:
https://www.amazon.com/Diversey-Vir...+quat+256+disinfectant&qid=1604410654&sr=8-14
https://www.amazon.com/Diversey-Vir...+quat+256+disinfectant&qid=1604410654&sr=8-14
drjohnnyfeva
Well-Known Member
...careful, now... The OP was clear this is a scientific thread. Agents containing scents are frowned upon as additional ingredients that could pollute or dilute the cleaning efficiencies of the mixes. Scents potentially leave a residue. Purity counts...
The alternative "mad chemist"/ household method for cleaning vinyl thread is still up and going strong...
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...of-fact-fiction-and-collective-wisdom.633407/
I'd love to see a scientific comparison of the best household method vs. the best "scientific mix" one day. Sadly, I don't think it will ever occur. "Mad chemist" is probably something both of these threads combine to have.
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