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Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

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MRL_Audio said:
^^^ you're never to clean a record at this pace...
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but that doesn’t help me :(
Triton contains SLS which is environmentally toxic and banned in the EU. I’d rather not use something that does damage to the environment if there’s an easy alternative.
 
^^^ wasn't meant to help. Just saying you've been going at this for some time and have yet to clean a record. What you do, how you do and with what is up to you. My perspective is that sometimes you just need to lean into something and get going and learn along the way. There's no one way road here. You veer off in one direction or another as you learn. The only road here is forward but you seem to be stuck at the yield sign.
 
Haha, that happens a lot with me. Most of my records are waiting to ship from Japan, so I have time to explore the rabbit hole
 
Hey valicious, my memory fails me but there was quite a comprehensive presentation in the resource thread about all of this. Perhaps going through it might prove useful for you. This is the one I'm referring to:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/record-cleaning-a-comprehensive-resource.884598/

I'm going to re-read it as well when I get a chance as it has much useful information. Just a quick glance seems to suggest Tergitol 15-S-7 is the one Phantomrebel is partial to.

Since you are in no hurry (always a good place to be) I encourage you to keep looking until you find what makes you happy!
 
I reread the Positive Feedback guide, read a few threads on other forums, and found my answer! The two types of tar gito L are used in a 50/50 mix. I read that thread you linked to a few weeks ago. It was just so much information to take in, my brain felt like jelly.
 
Yeah, I do know the jelly feeling....Yes, and I believe Phantomrebel said as much, that mixing 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 essentially gives you the equivalent of 15-S-7.....see here:

1. Tergitol 15-S series (Dow Chemicals) [1]. This series of Tergitols are versatile, biodegradable, non-ionic detergents based on secondary alcohol ethoxylates. They all have the same tail, an up to 15 carbon atom long, Secondary substituted alcohol (= 15-S). They differ in the degree of ethoxylation (number of hydrophilic ethylene oxide groups at the polar head). Hence, 15-S-3 contains 3 ethylene oxide units and 15-S-9 has 9. Given this, one can conclude the S-3 is more hydrophobic (has less polar content) than the S-9. Not surprisingly, 15-S-3 is more active against oily contaminants than S-9, but it isn’t soluble in water. 15-S-7 is right in the middle of being water soluble yet active against oils while maintaining good rinseability and is therefore a great choice for record cleaning [2]. It’s cloud point (37 C) is also just above the temperature where it is typically used which is also advantageous.* That said, some people combine S-3 with S-9 to get a soluble mixture, with the goal of having a cleaner that is active towards a broader range of contaminants. The only drawback here is that excess S-3 will adhere stronger to the record (via hydrophobic interactions).

The United States Library of Congress recommends a solution of Tergitol 15-S-7 for cleaning of old phonograph records whereas the Canadian Conservation Institute recommends a mixture of Tergitol 15-S-3 and Tergitol 15-S-9 [3]. An acceptable range of Tergitol in cleaning solutions is 0.01-0.1%. The higher range would be for hand-cleaning, lower in the range is used in mechanical cleaning devices. Tergitols are useful in ultrasonic cleaning tanks as their foam is low and collapses rapidly.

And yes, I firmly believe that experience will make things much more clear for you as to whether or not your formulation has delivered on your expectations. It's good to have a well-thought-through starting point, however, and from your posts valicious that seems to be what you are trying to determine.
 
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valicious said:
Is there a benefit to using one over the other for Triton X-100 and Tergitol S-15-3 and S-15-9? What’s the difference between S-15-3 and S-15-9?
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15-S-3 is insoluble in water, but it's highly effective at solubizing oily contaminants like fingerprints, tar, etc. It needs to be combined with the 15-S-9 in order to be dissolved in water, otherwise it just pools on top.
 
valicious said:
I reread the Positive Feedback guide, read a few threads on other forums, and found my answer! The two types of tar gito L are used in a 50/50 mix. I read that thread you linked to a few weeks ago. It was just so much information to take in, my brain felt like jelly.
Click to expand...

So, good for you! Be sure to report back and let us know what you find upon cleaning some records. That is one of the real benefits of threads like this and such conversation as we are having. I'm gonna make a prediction......IT'S GONNA KNOCK YOUR SOCKS OFF!!!! Can't wait to hear about it and have some fun......
 
Wow... yeah. Great fun cleaning LP's... Like cleaning grout in the shower. Just needs to be done to get the most from the investment.
 
Moderation Note:

This thread has a very specific purpose, and that is squeezing the last drop out of the record cleaning lemon. Getting after folks who are trying to do just that, in this thread, is thread crapping, and is against the AK rules. So ease up on the seekers in this thread. There are plenty of other threads to convey your philosophies of "Just get it done." This admonition can be backed up with persuasion if necessary...

Rich P
 
@moderator,

Any thoughts of linking the spreadsheets @EngineerNate so graciously posted for easy solution computation in his post #1624 in the new Record Cleaning, A Comprehensive Resource pages? With EngineerNates permission and brief comments on use I think they would go along way to answering the many questions regarding solution percentages and mixing of a specific volume.

Here is the first post link to those spreadsheets. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4ohxieumi08sbuz/AACOWoVXwIclAOOhO__lTTb1a?dl=0

Many thanks to all the posters, especially the forum departed Vince1 that helped me getting started with my cleaning journey many years ago. Thanks to you all carrying that torch in providing your chemistry and usage experience to enlighten others just finding this thread.
 
This is now @phantomrebel's thread. He is apparently indisposed for the last few months. I hope it is not virus-related.

Until he returns, this thread is in idling mode. The Comprehensive Resource thread is his, as a donation to AK. We will wait until his return to determine what to do on that matter, but do keep it in mind, so you can bring up the idea(s) for reconsideration.

Enjoy,
Rich P
 
I was supposed to make some updates to that spreadsheet but real life happened and I've been out of the audio hobby a bit.

You guys have full permission to do whatever you want with it. If it needs anything specific changed or added let me know and I'm happy to help still, things are calming down a tiny bit as we go into winter.
 
@moderator ok, thanks for the info. I’ll resurface the suggestion when @phantomrebel joins back in the thread.

@EngineerNate, I don’t have any suggestions on the spreadsheets themselves, just adding them to the Resource page as mentioned in my previous post. I’m sure those involved in this thread and those new to it would appreciate any updates you can make whenever time allows. I’m already very grateful for you creating them in the first place.
 
I'm thinking about inserting a post, after Vince's first one, in this thread, where I could put in a table of contents, with links to significant posts, or starts of significant info exchanges in this thread. If anyone would like to go through the long thread and suggest posts of this nature that would be good to link to in such a table of contents, just post links to those specific posts (or post numbers). Nate's post would certainly be one of them.

Enjoy,
Rich P
 
What should we use in the rinse step if we don’t have an RCM? I’m starting from scratch, and all I have is an ultrasonic tank and a Vinyl Stack.
 
You can use a vacuum wand, which are quite reasonably priced. I think we have a fellow AKr who makes them.

You can pick up a non-functional, cheap turntable; for the needed support. A dedicated brush and some readily available distilled water should do it.

Enjoy,
Rich P
 
pustelniakr said:
You can use a vacuum wand, which are quite reasonably priced. I think we have a fellow AKr who makes them.

You can pick up a non-functional, cheap turntable; for the needed support. A dedicated brush and some readily available distilled water should do it.

Enjoy,
Rich P
Click to expand...

I have a big ol’ wet/dry vac in my garage, I there an attachment I could use on it?
 
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