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Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

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Vince1 said:
just curious, what does a US vendor charge you to ship their commercial fluid to Canada? Consider that you would be paying for mostly water vs. a lifetime supply of the same or better ingredient in concentrated form.
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500ml from Electron Microscopy Services is $39, plus $15 shipping for a total of $54USD. Today, $1CAD is $0.755 USD, so add roughly a third to the price, and maybe there are currency conversion charges of a few percent on top of that, but let's ignore that. Roughly $71.52 CAD, or $0.143 per ml.

But, the same vendor now (well, maybe I missed that yesterday) has 100 ml for $10 USD, which should be plenty. Still $15 USD shipping so we get to around $33 CAD ($0.33/ml - ouch!!!) but when you consider how little you need, this is a possibility. Let's try and see...
 
Tom6to1 said:
500ml from Electron Microscopy Services is $39, plus $15 shipping for a total of $54USD. Today, $1CAD is $0.755 USD, so add roughly a third to the price, and maybe there are currency conversion charges of a few percent on top of that, but let's ignore that. Roughly $71.52 CAD, or $0.143 per ml.

But, the same vendor now (well, maybe I missed that yesterday) has 100 ml for $10 USD, which should be plenty. Still $15 USD shipping so we get to around $33 CAD ($0.33/ml - ouch!!!) but when you consider how little you need, this is a possibility. Let's try and see...
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OK, order placed. Let's see if it actually gets here.
 
Wait until you try to get Nexazyme (for the enzyme clean step) and of course behentimonium methosulfate to control static kling as per: https://sites.google.com/site/vincesaudiofiles/

Sad really that an imaginary line at the 49th parallel turns some fairly innocuous fluids into near unobtanium on the other side - the hunt continues as I like a good challenge. Saving some purchases for my next boating trip to the US this spring/summer ;-)

 
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Vince1 said:
What final Triton concentration you using Mprince? You want about 1:10 ratio quat to Triton. So, if you are using 0.5% Triton, you want around 0.05% Quat, or a 1:200 dilution of your stock. Let us know your results!
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Vince, I noticed that my quat solution I made up has turned rather viscous in storage. Is this normal once the solution cools a bit? It still flows and I won't have a problem introducing small amounts to my cleaning solution, was just surprised when I looked at it the other day.
 
mprince said:
Vince, I noticed that my quat solution I made up has turned rather viscous in storage. Is this normal once the solution cools a bit? It still flows and I won't have a problem introducing small amounts to my cleaning solution, was just surprised when I looked at it the other day.
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Is it in a tightly closed container? Is it in the refrigerator or room temperature? Solutions will appear somewhat viscous at room temperature, think how your hair conditioner looks compared to your shampoo, but they shouldn't be gel-like unless they dry out.
 
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Vince1 said:
Is it in a tightly closed container? Is it in the refrigerator or room temperature? Solutions will appear somewhat viscous at room temperature, think how your hair conditioner looks compared to your shampoo, but they shouldn't be gel-like unless they dry out.
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Yes, it is in a squeeze bottle with a snap-on cap so I don't believe evaporation is an issue. I wouldn't call it gel-like, more like the consistency of hair conditioner (actually a bit thinner). I believe I used ~10g of quat pellets, dissolved in hot distilled water, then topped up with distilled water to 100ml of solution.
 
mprince said:
Yes, it is in a squeeze bottle with a snap-on cap so I don't believe evaporation is an issue. I wouldn't call it gel-like, more like the consistency of hair conditioner (actually a bit thinner). I believe I used ~10g of quat pellets, dissolved in hot distilled water, then topped up with distilled water to 100ml of solution.
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It sounds normal to me. Have you incorporated it into your wash mix yet? Were you having static issues previously? Interested to hear about your results.
 
arts said:
I tried dealing with Talas during my quest for Tergitol. The least expensive shipping method they would offer cost approximately 3x the value of the product I wished to purchase.They insisted upon using some super-duper grade of parcel post,despite other, far less expensive postal options being available. Took my business elsewhere.
As I recall,ServoCity tried to pull the same thing,with $50USD postal shipping for a $100USD order that would have fit in a Kleenex-box.
And like Talas,they couldn't have cared less about losing a sale either.
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They won't ship USPS Priority Mail International anymore? That's the one you want to use because chances are you won't get hit with brokerage fees when it's handed off to Canada Post. Yes, it's expensive but don't blame Talas for that. USPS was on the verge of bankruptcy a few years ago and it appears they decided to place the bulk of their profitability on international shipments.

That's fair enough, but it's also the reason I seldom buy anything from the US anymore unless it's absolutely necessary. I recently backed out of a Discogs vinyl purchase from a guy in Detroit because the shipping charges were more than the cost of the records, and the seller didn't play grade them or guarantee their condition. Purchases from the EU are still viable though, and the shipments often arrive much more quickly.

We also have the option to have the items shipped to a US border town at domestic rates and hop across to pick them up. There are services set up just for this purpose and the storage fees are very reasonable in light of the alternatives.
 
Timothy Flath said:
Sad really that an imaginary line at the 49th parallel turns some fairly innocuous fluids into near unobtanium on the other side -
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Wish I knew who to blame for that...federal regulations or exclusive distribution agreements, but yeah...it can be frustrating. Still looking for a way to get my hands on some behentrimonium locally but haven't yet found any...
 
just looking for some general input here. ive read this whole thread and am still slightly lost.

i received a squeaky clean RCM last week and have been using roughly 5 parts distilled water, 1 part 91%iso alcohol and a drop or 2 of blue dawn soap. it seems to work rather well getting the basics dust, paper and such off. but is there anything i could do to the formula to get better results? i know scratches cant be resolved. ive been using the above mixture and using a MF brush for the solution and a different brush for just a distilled rinse after.

aside from Photo Flo or that Ilford product that could really make a difference?

thanks all!
 
nastynate said:
just looking for some general input here. ive read this whole thread and am still slightly lost.

i received a squeaky clean RCM last week and have been using roughly 5 parts distilled water, 1 part 91%iso alcohol and a drop or 2 of blue dawn soap. it seems to work rather well getting the basics dust, paper and such off. but is there anything i could do to the formula to get better results? i know scratches cant be resolved. ive been using the above mixture and using a MF brush for the solution and a different brush for just a distilled rinse after.

aside from Photo Flo or that Ilford product that could really make a difference?

thanks all!
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Welcome to the SqueakyClean club - loving mine. I think Dr. Vince is the goto guy on your concerns. I too did a front to back read of this thread and I think what I am reading is your Alcohol content is too high and the fact you may be using and impure ionic soap (I confess I am not exactly sure what blue Dawn is - assume Dish Soap coloured blue?) that will have a propensity to leave a static charge on you vinyl with residue (albeit a slight amount) even with DH2O flushes. Many folks might confuse static crackle and pop noises as being small scratch noises. By eliminating static on the LP through various techniques, you get rid of one more noise creator that helps in the overall listening experience of your LPs.
 
Timothy Flath said:
Welcome to the SqueakyClean club - loving mine. I think Dr. Vince is the goto guy on your concerns. I too did a front to back read of this thread and I think what I am reading is your Alcohol content is too high and the fact you may be using and impure ionic soap (I confess I am not exactly sure what blue Dawn is - assume Dish Soap coloured blue?) that will have a propensity to leave a static charge on you vinyl with residue (albeit a slight amount) even with DH2O flushes. Many folks might confuse static crackle and pop noises as being small scratch noises. By eliminating static on the LP through various techniques, you get rid of one more noise creator that helps in the overall listening experience of your LPs.
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Thanks for the reply. Ya i have been absolutely loving it. Even using it for some brand new records with just a DH2O wash to get the paper/dust off.

I have not noticed any left over static for the cleaner records, but definite pops and stuff from records with scratches which is fine. The dish soap its just their classic blue soap. I would prefer a better surfactant and not using the soap. i made a small sample batch of the solution just to try it out. hasnt left any residue behind that im worried about. but would think theres got to be a better solution out there to eliminate the soap which has me concerned a bit.
 
nastynate said:
theres got to be a better solution out there to eliminate the soap which has me concerned a bit
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IMO, that is the point of this whole thread. Tergitol or Triton is the better solution. A bit of effort to mix the initial concentrate, then after that it's as easy to add to a wash solution as anything you currently grab from under the kitchen sink.
 
mprince said:
IMO, that is the point of this whole thread. Tergitol or Triton is the better solution. A bit of effort to mix the initial concentrate, then after that it's as easy to add to a wash solution as anything you currently grab from under the kitchen sink.
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i'll have to go back a read this again. a lot of the conversation got lost on me a bit. the Tergitol or Triton is a diy mixed solution? that is then added to the wash solution such as DH2O/Iso?
 
Tergitol or Triton... how safe is that stuff if sprayed in your eyes :deal: . LAST Record cleaner is not recommended for exposure to your eyes either. Alcohol will do a number on your eyes also so I don't think it's wise to spray any chemicals in yours eyes period except maybe Visine :naughty:

This post is in jest so please don't get butthurt anyone
 
Northwinds said:
Tergitol or Triton... how safe is that stuff if sprayed in your eyes :deal: . LAST Record cleaner is not recommended for exposure to your eyes either. Alcohol will do a number on your eyes also so I don't think it's wise to spray any chemicals in yours eyes period except maybe Visine :naughty:

This post is in jest so please don't get butthurt anyone
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I get the joke, but it is probably OK if a little of our very dilute Triton or Tergitol got in your eyes (though it is an irritant and the distilled water will make it feel hypotonic). Like shampoo or soap, you'd just want to rinse it out quickly. They use neutral and even cationic surfactants in ophthalmology, personal care products and cosmetics all the time. Detergent containing shampoos will be "no more tears" or for babys when they have neutral pH. I'd actually recommend them for record cleaning as the major detergent in them (cocamidopropyl betaine) is zwitterionic and the good ones contain less perfumes and dyes, but they always seem to add an anionic (SDS) to it. The eye test is just a very crude guide meant for shock value, but our non-IPA mix of 0.5% Triton is mild compared to common household cleaners. Even the baby shampoo MSDS says to rinse for 15 min with water and seek medical attention if it gets in your eyes! The Visine you mentioned is mostly a water soluble lubricant (Hypromellose) but it does contain a cationic surfactant (the quat Benzalkonium Chloride, mostly for it's preservative properties) so don't be so quick to judge surfactants as harmful to the eyes! I wouldn't wash records with the stuff though as it contains a bunch of salts to make it isotonic and would cost you a $fortune/gallon.
In retrospect, a better crude test is "would you put it on an open wound"?. This would eliminate the strongly acidic and basic formulations as well as those high in organic solvents.
 
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Vince1 said:
I get the joke, but it is probably OK if a little of our very dilute Triton or Tergitol got in your eyes (though it is an irritant and the distilled water will make it feel hypotonic). Like shampoo or soap, you'd just want to rinse it out quickly. They use neutral and even cationic surfactants in ophthalmology, personal care products and cosmetics all the time. Detergent containing shampoos will be "no more tears" or for babys when they have neutral pH. I'd actually recommend them for record cleaning as the major detergent in them (cocamidopropyl betaine) is zwitterionic and the good ones contain less perfumes and dyes, but they always seem to add an anionic (SDS) to it. The eye test is just a very crude guide meant for shock value, but our non-IPA mix of 0.5% Triton is mild compared to common household cleaners. Even the baby shampoo MSDS says to rinse for 15 min with water and seek medical attention if it gets in your eyes! The Visine you mentioned is mostly a water soluble lubricant (Hypromellose) but it does contain a cationic surfactant (the quat Benzalkonium Chloride, mostly for it's preservative properties) so don't be so quick to judge surfactants as harmful to the eyes! I wouldn't wash records with the stuff though as it contains a bunch of salts to make it isotonic and would cost you a $fortune/gallon.
In retrospect, a better crude test is "would you put it on an open wound"?. This would eliminate the strongly acidic and basic formulations as well as those high in organic solvents.
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You sure know a lot, Vince. :rolleyes:
 
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