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Russco Cue Master build

Blackdog61 said:
I will get some teflon washers but it was noisy with just the stock washer on the bottom; the top unsecured. No difference I can tell.
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That could be an issue….if one runs a Studio Pro without a lock ring on top of the idler, eventually the idler rises and rubs against the platter. Might need to inspect idler to capstan contact? Maybe take a small square and see if the original idler has any uneven wear?
 
Blackdog61 said:
When I disassembled the motor (three times, I think) there was no detectable wear. What I thought at the time was sludge on the metal thrust plate where the ball bearing rides may have been grease. That came to me from somewhere or something I read. The thrust plates looked brand new. I have adjusted the grub screw in the bottom for minimal play and the capstan runs true. I’m tempted to open it up again and put a dab of grease down there. Has anyone tried a delrin thrust plate? It might wear quickly at 1800 rpm but it’s an idea.
As much as I understand that the Bodine motor tends to be noisy, I can imagine that it can still be improved. I’m reluctant to spend money having it rebuilt though. I have another one I’m inclined to experiment with. Might try a new cap on that one to see what can be done.
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The Bodine is a two-phase motor driving it with a two-phase powersupply brings the vibration to a minimum and lowers the heat consumption and you can adjust the speed.
 
Blackdog61 said:
The Delrin definitely has more mechanical noise than the stock wheel and I’m not sure why. I ended up using the stock washer on the bottom and two nylon washers on top, securing it with two of the original clips hoping to dampen any tendency for vertical movement. That, I doubted because there is no discernible wobble in this. Still, after this I do hear a bit of mechanical noise even after adjusting the screw for just enough pressure to maintain contact. I oiled the bushing and am going to just run it, hoping it works in. The speed is better and this reading was done with no stylus drag. There is maybe a bit more detail in the low end compared to the stock wheel. Splitting hairs. View attachment 3164131View attachment 3164132
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That photo looks like too many washers, have always ran mine with some room to “float” on the shaft….not saying it’s wrong, but maybe try with a couple of Teflon and top contact washer that allows some room for the idler to move up and down on the shaft.

Note, idler tables employed different methods of idler mounts, so it’s not one way fits all…
 
Volken said:
The Bodine is a two-phase motor driving it with a two-phase powersupply brings the vibration to a minimum and lowers the heat consumption and you can adjust the speed.
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The Bodines are generally known as noisy compared to the later Japanese versions….Don’t know if rebuilding would narrow that gap.

It would be interesting to spin the capstan pulley (shaft) on a lathe…..
 
adnick said:
The Bodines are generally known as noisy compared to the later Japanese versions….Don’t know if rebuilding would narrow that gap.

It would be interesting to spin the capstan pulley (shaft) on a lathe…..
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Here you can see the improvement in vibration in this case with 50hz drive the 100hz motorvibration goes from -9db to -35 db down in practice if you hold the motor in your hand you can't almost no vibration anymore.
These are very robust motors after revision they can for many years .
 
Most likely a long shot and more work than it's worth, but any chance the Ashland from a ROK B12H would fit the mount? It's an 1800 rpm motor.
 
Volken said:
Here you can see the improvement in vibration in this case with 50hz drive the 100hz motorvibration goes from -9db to -35 db down in practice if you hold the motor in your hand you can't almost no vibration anymore.
These are very robust motors after revision they can for many years .
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Hmmmmmmm…I don’t have the time or patience to build a speed controller but maybe someone on this forum would do it for a price.
 
Selmerdave said:
Most likely a long shot and more work than it's worth, but any chance the Ashland from a ROK B12H would fit the mount? It's an 1800 rpm motor.
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The ROK Ashland is huge, and the capstan is Bakelite and alignment would probably be an issue, not sure it would fit within the Russco’s mount.

Built one of the “Nigel’s speed controls” (Lencoheaven) myself, controls both voltage and Hz, 33, 45 & 78….works fantastic, but it’s a dual transformer, fairly complicated build.

There’s a guy selling a simple speed control version for Fairchild, ROK tables and one has one for multiple speeds, looks like it could work for the Russco and it probably is fairly easy to upgrade with some better parts and/or a more ergonomic design….price is not bad.
 
Here’s a couple of random thoughts:

The Pro has an indentation on the idler shaft that the tall portion of the idler sets into, it takes more washers on the bottom than the top, otherwise the idler will lightly rub the next speed ridge….

When messing around with one of my big ROK tables I weighed the motor, noticed that Werner did the same on his QRK build, it might help with vibration?

I’ll send you a link,

Andy
 
Every now and then I have an epiphany! I’ve been running my old tube amp off a bucking transformer which drops 7V and just put it before the turntable. Could be imagining things but it seems quieter. There are three issues (first world and admittedly minor).
1) hum with the stylus in the groove. I believe it is mainly motor vibration being picked up by the stylus. Replacing the mounts, the delrin pad in a brass grubscrew, adding a damped armboard and filling the low part of the platter with rubber helped. It’s barely there at normal listening volume.
2) idler rumble. I’ll add teflon washers and it will be as good as it can be. Not bad now.
3) ambient noise coming from the motor from the listening chair. Not a big deal but it is audible.

I’m pretty happy that this old rumble machine is as quiet as it is and so enjoyable as a music delivery tool.
That said, part of the interest in this audio hobby is tweaking and squeezing the last bit of performance out of our gear.
 
Spent some time with grounding and head scratching. With the stylus in the groove but the platter stationary and the volume cranked, it is clear that the noise is motor vibration. It just sounds like a loud motor coming through the speakers. So that’s that.
 
Blackdog61 said:
Ok, is this your product?
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There’s Pierre Clement turntables, cartridges and such, don’t know much about the products and have only seen pictures of the turntables….

Don’t know anything about the Pierre Clement other than looking at the photo, looks like it might be a single speed control (other switches or functions may not be visible) the pot adjustment on the front probably controls the Hz, might be another pot somewhere that facilitates adjustable voltage?

I’ll post a couple of photos of one I built based on Nigel’s board….

Nigel’s controller has similar functions to the controller that used to be offered as a controller for Garrard’s and later labeled for Thorens; they pop up on eBay every once In awhile, believe most of them are copies or clones.

The one I built controls Hz for each speed selected, and the speed is selected by the larger knob on the right side, voltage control is the pot closest to the voltage gauge, (chose not to mount a Hz gauge on this one) and in this format the tables speed control (if it has one) remains in 33rpm. Many variations can be made to this type of controller, and there’s multiple ways of building controllers….

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shop.hanzehifi.nl

H.A.T. CPS-2 - Thorens TD124 - H.A.T Hanze Hifi webshop

De jongste telg van het H.A.T. geslacht is de CPS-2 (Clean Power Supply 2). Het is een apparaat dat in staat is om de vervuilde netspanning op te schonen.
shop.hanzehifi.nl
The website a 2 phase supply for Russco turntables.

FWIW, the motor noise has been significantly reduced by adjusting the mounting screws, reducing the supply voltage and better grounding.
 
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