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Russco Studio Pro Plinth Build

Hi Ken, feel free to post pics or start a new thread on your rebuild. Really not a lot out there on these cool tables. The Russco and QRK have a lot of the same DNA in their bones.

BillWojo

Bill: You’re certainly right about that ;)

Tomorrow afternoon has opened up for me, but I don’t have the guts installed in my plinth, should have been more prepared…

I’m going to stick one on and see what it sounds like, can’t resist :bs:
 
Andy, that's fine that you don't have the guts in the plinth. At this point your trying to locate any and all sources of noise and vibrations that you can. Not draining them into the massive damped plinth will give you more information that otherwise would be lost. Now after the new idler is installed, you should be able do hear a massive difference considering the condition of the original idler.

BillWojo
 
Spent the afternoon setting up the Russco for testing, and there were some surprising results:

First, the platter height is critical to both speed adjustment and controlling platter resonance; the closer the idler rides to the lower platter edge helps controls noise.

Next the big surprise for me, the Delrin idler with the brass bushing was quieter than the pure Delrin. Not by much, have to use a silent test track and and oscilloscope to detect the difference but it’s there. Actually need to say, Abe told me that this would be the case, but I’m hard headed:crazy:

The still shots of the oscilloscope shows, playing music, then silent track in different configurations…

The Delrin idlers are fantastic in either configuration, when paired with @BillWojos Delrin pad setscrew this is one quite table,

Used an old Pickering D120 mono cartridge for testing today when not actually using the test record.

This Russco is a very fine table, very impressed :trebon:


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Looks good Andy, looks like you need to start calling him Honest Abe. LOL
Not that I trust the cell phone app but the speed seems to be about perfect, just question the W & F measurement.
Can you read a periodic waveform on the scope and would it correlate to the idler RPM? If the W & F measurement is somewhat accurate, it seems that something is causing an issue. Possibly to much end play on the idler wheel and axle? Misalignment of the idler wheel causing it to weave up and down on the inner diameter of the platter?
Have you tried playing something and is the W & F audible?

BillWojo
 
Looks good Andy, looks like you need to start calling him Honest Abe. LOL
Not that I trust the cell phone app but the speed seems to be about perfect, just question the W & F measurement.
Can you read a periodic waveform on the scope and would it correlate to the idler RPM? If the W & F measurement is somewhat accurate, it seems that something is causing an issue. Possibly to much end play on the idler wheel and axle? Misalignment of the idler wheel causing it to weave up and down on the inner diameter of the platter?
Have you tried playing something and is the W & F audible?

BillWojo
Bill:

The difference between the two idlers would never be apparent in use, but it is detectable, and had to mention it for full disclosure

That phone photo is out of focus it’s reading 0.27 W&F but that’s still higher than my tube W&F meter on the far right. However reading that analog meter is a skill in and of itself ;)

I checked the speed with a strobe also, it’s about perfect, but I couldn’t take a picture of that:p

The only real issue I’ve noticed is some motor vibration, believe it’s related to the table just sitting in an open plinth….

The thing is extremely pleasing :trebon:
 
Bill:

It was late for me so let me answer some more of your questions somewhat coherently

Yes music was playing on occasion, and it was goooood’

One could probably figure out most everything with an oscilloscope, I’m just not the “one”:confused:

I’ve induced the motor noise, more of a vibration than noise, it wasn’t there before, so it’s obviously something I did :bye:

Of course we’ll get into specifics when you get yours back

Below is some general personal perceptions and pontificating, for general audience understanding of my eclectic, and eccentric ideas/behaviors :boring:

The focus of my work was identification of spurious noise, not really worrying about anything else, but the speed needed to be correct for that.

Not going to get into a debate about the phone app, one can find plenty of that, the phone app is useful, to me, for on the fly speed setting and taking photos ;)

One thing for sure, the phone itself can induce both W&F and speed issues in a table that doesn’t have any. Just place the phone in a slightly different location and both the speed and the W&F reading will change.

When finished with my noise reduction work I’ll use the old tube W&F tester (far right in photos) hooked up to the phono output and a known good test record to test the W&F

With all that said, I pay no attention to the phone W&F, always play some well known albums with some solo piano that have held notes as my first W&F testing, knowing if it’s a go/no go before doing more; the meter just provides me some additional information.

Albums like Waltz for Debby, several George Winston, Dave Brubeck, and my personal favorite, Passing Ships by Andrew Hill. Then for sibilance testing it doesn’t get much better than Sweet Jane by the Cowboy Junkies…




On to find the motor vibration issue….


VR
Andy
 
Happy to report that the Russco’s motor noise was caused by me, no feet on the plinth and the powercord was wrapped around the motor then caught between plinth and work bench:confused:

Right now the motor running and idler engaged, can’t tell the thing is even on, other than the platter silently spinning:thumbsup:

A2051320-A8FA-4F8D-AB4E-064B93C38DB0.jpeg

My adventures with the Russco was not planned, @BillWojo and @musiqlovr pushed me headfirst into this Rabbit Hole and I’m still falling :bye:
It’s actually been a very good experience, made new friends and learned much, doesn’t get better than that:thumbsup:

Bill had pointed out the right way to re-surface an idler, here’s a shot of my attempt to emulate his advice, did both of the original idlers, one was saved the other is too far gone, but even resurfaced the old one is no match for the Delrin idlers from Abe.


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Nice job Andy, the only real way to get a perfectly trued up idler wheel.
For those not familiar with what is going on in the picture the idler wheel (orange object near the top of the picture) is being held by a pin mounted in the lathe spindle that was set dead true and is being rotated. The white object in the middle of the picture is a grinding wheel that is rotating at high speed. You can see the orange stripe of rubber on the grinding wheel. The grinding wheel is fed in very slowly until the surface of the idler is totally cleaned up and looks as new.
As long as the rubber is still soft and pliable, resurfacing it will yield an as new idler.

BillWojo
 
Nice job Andy, the only real way to get a perfectly trued up idler wheel.
For those not familiar with what is going on in the picture the idler wheel (orange object near the top of the picture) is being held by a pin mounted in the lathe spindle that was set dead true and is being rotated. The white object in the middle of the picture is a grinding wheel that is rotating at high speed. You can see the orange stripe of rubber on the grinding wheel. The grinding wheel is fed in very slowly until the surface of the idler is totally cleaned up and looks as new.
As long as the rubber is still soft and pliable, resurfacing it will yield an as new idler.

BillWojo

Good job explaining the process, realize not everyone has nor wants the equipment to accomplish this task, my post should have been more explanatory.


Thanks,
Andy
 
Well got the 12” EMT clone mounted, but had distorted sound in one channel.

After some fiddling I realized that it was now also distorted with the other tonearm :(

Had been working on the Fisher SA100 so my attention turned to it, couldn’t find the cause and the bias was spot on.

After an afternoon of work with no progress I noticed that the preamp cartridge selection switch was in between MM and MC :eek:

That was not fun:rant:, but the arm sounds good :thumbsup:

All is well that ends well,
Andy

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Not trying to toot my own horn, but this Russco is just an incredible table, just those minor mods make a huge difference and when it put in a correct plinth :bowdown:

Brought this in from testing in the shop, have good amps and preamps in there but my shop speakers leave something to be desired ;)

All I can say is wow:trebon:, if someone wants a high end table, I’d certainly recommend a Studio Pro, with just a few mods it’s gonna be outstanding, and it’s super simple to work on ( excluding speed lights :rant:)

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Glad to hear it's performing that well. I suspect that these will be going up in price now that it's proven that they can perform at high levels. A very nice alternative to the big name idlers that cost thousands.
Besides, I think these tables just look a lot cooler with that shift lever and all. Andy, yours is really cool with two arms.
Yea, those lights are the one item that's not easy to replace. Wish someone would make replacements.

BillWojo
 
Those lights may never light again :confused:

Have to decide on what type material to use for that second arm board, have an 11” and a 10” arm(s) that will eventually get rotated in.

Considered aluminum painted black, but not sure that’s real feasible because I wanted to increase the thickness to at least 1/2”…

Think you and Steve will be impressed….
 
I understand that ipe wood has some of the best damping properties of solid wood. Have an ipe armboard on my Studio Pro, and it looks good, at least. Could not find out the effectiveness, because i was (and still am) waiting for new motor suspension units promised by somebody active in this thread, and with the old ones there is simply too much transmitted noise.

Muggsy 2.jpg

Also made one for my TD124, and that has improved background noise compared to the previous one made from multiply.

armboard done.jpg
 
I understand that ipe wood has some of the best damping properties of solid wood. Have an ipe armboard on my Studio Pro, and it looks good, at least. Could not find out the effectiveness, because i was (and still am) waiting for new motor suspension units promised by somebody active in this thread, and with the old ones there is simply too much transmitted noise.

View attachment 2409310

Also made one for my TD124, and that has improved background noise compared to the previous one made from multiply.

View attachment 2409311


Those arm boards look great, and as I stated somewhere along the line, changing to a wood arm board made an Immediately noticeable difference in the noise floor on mine…..

I’m sure the motor mounts are coming soon :thumbsup:

VR
Andy
 
More work coming my way, did not really want to buy another TT, and sure as hell don't need another one, but ....
Was offered a QRK for very little money and simply could not resist the temptation, but since it is Brexit infected i will still be hit by Customs.

topless.jpg

It is complete, of course :)
 
More work coming my way, did not really want to buy another TT, and sure as hell don't need another one, but ....
Was offered a QRK for very little money and simply could not resist the temptation, but since it is Brexit infected i will still be hit by Customs.

View attachment 2409405

It is complete, of course :)

That’s great same as a Cue Master:thumbsup: Certainly understand the sentiment of not needing another table ;)

That note about not leaving in gear is the only design in these tables I don’t like, on most ROK tables the power is controlled by engaging/disengaging the idler, so when the power is off the idler is disengaged.


Look forward to seeing your build,

Andy
 
I like your idea of having the tonearm top left, because that moves the cartridge away from the motor as far as possible, however, i find it a pain to use the arm from this position. I made one TT with two arms, one of them mounted top left, and after trying my luck twice i have never used it again. A "conventional" turntable could be turned by 90 degrees, but with the gearshift of these tables this is not really an option.
 
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